Good Ole Tire

[Lumberjack]

I have a small pine to finish removing tomorrow. I had many crotches and is an ugly tree. It has a lean toward the house and 2 power lines, so you can fel it. It is to nasty looking for me to climb it, so we used a rough terrain forklift as a lift. I got most of it down yesterday, but I am left with a good bit at the top we can't reach. So I will to rope down the top of the tree.

This is a large amount of weight, so I was trying to figure out the best way to minimize the shock load, when I remembered using a tire and 2 chains to pull trucks out of the mud. To do it you take the chain and take it around the beads, and hook it over the tread, and do the same with the other chain 180 degrees from that. I could put the tire between my anchor and the port-a-wrap, and it would act like a big shock absorber.

Before yall call me a troll (what is that ment as?) or gripe about the saftey, I have personaly used this to cushion all pulling a tractor out of the mud after getting a 15-20ft running start in my Chevy (using big binder chain G83 doubled). I have also used our 45 hp 4wd tractor to pull my truck out, pul trees out at a local tree farm, ect. I fill use a fresh tire and post some pics.

Just another brainstorm. Let me know if you can shoot some holes in it (I am sure that one, or most of yall can), or let me know if it is a good idea. For added saftey I could mount a seperate anchor and tie the port-a-wrap in to it with some 3/4" tenex.

Carl

 

[NeTree]

Carl, I think you need to take the time to work with someone more seasoned who can show you how to do things safely and properly.

Being un-knowledgable isn't a bad thing in itself, and everyone has to start someplace. The key is to be willing to do what it takes to get trained and educated, and being humble in recognizing what you can and cannot do.

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by netree
Carl, I think you need to take the time to work with someone more seasoned who can show you how to do things safely and properly.

Being un-knowledgable isn't bad thing in itself, and everyone has to start someplace. The key is to be willing to do what it takes to get trained and educated, and being humble in recognizing what you can and cannot do.

That doesn't have anything to do with this thread, that is a nock towards me. I know what I can and can't do. I like criticism, and I like an argument more, but that doesn't help me at all.

 

[Stumper]

Carl, Are you talking about getting a running start with your truck to try to pull it over? If so NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Steady pressure can provide control. Popping out slack is dangerous. Shock absorber or not you are going into an unbalanced situation. You don't want the thing falling the wrong way before you start pulling or yanking loose and spinning off the stump when you pop it. DANGER, Will Robinson, DANGER!

Your post was a little confusing. Why is it unsafe to climb?

 

[MasterBlaster]

You said it was a 'small' pine. Just go up and rope it out.

Whats the big deal?

 

[Stumper]

Eric posted while I was typing. Carl, he isn't knocking you. That was a very polite suggestion that you could gain some valuable knowledge by watching and helping an expert without being tempted to do risky things while you are learning. Some guys have really blasted newbies on here but Eric was being a perfect gentleman about it.:angel:

 

[Lumberjack]

Re-read my post, I am lowering the top on a rope, not pulling it over. I used my truck as an example of the idea when pulling a truck out of the mud, and then using that idea to add a cushion to the anchor. It would be a regular false crotch setup, with an added cushion.

The tree may not be unsafe to climb, but I wouldn't feel safe climbing it. It goes up about 10 feet and has (I think) 3 crotches, then all of those leaders go up and crotch again and again, with all the crotches having very small angles. The top of the tree is very dry also, so you have less control when you cut. I am kinda heavy (6'2" 225), so my spikes would probably peal out like crazy.

I do everything with trees very slowly. I am knowledgable in rigging things other than trees, and have a good base of knowledge with that.

Just bouncing ideas, not trying to change the world.


Carl

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'm 6'2" and 220 lbs, and I rarely kick out.

Do you wear longshanks? Are they sharp?

Why don't you want to climb the top out?

I think Erik offered the best advice.

 

[njarbor]

what lumberjack is talking about , in theory does work . being an avid offroader and living in the pinebarrens i have seen people use tires to absorb the shock when they are using chains of heavy duty towstraps. this does work but i have also seen the tire tear in half and send chains ricocheting back at mach one . even a rope doing the same thing can cause serious damage and using it for something close to power lines or a house or anything of value for that matter should be frowned upon. why would you need too cushion it ? maybe i am missing something here ,but if i were you and could not or did not want to climb the tree , rent a bucket or sub it out . if you arent confident thats when you are going to get hurt . i know i am young and thats something older climbers may say , but i have learned it first hand .

 

[Lumberjack]

I have new Buckingham 2-3/4" spikes. I started off with another brand, and they toke a little getting use to. The tree may be safe, but I wouldn't climb it to cut it, only to set the ropes it I have to. With all those small angled crotchs I could see one breaking over with me on it, it probably wouldn't, but I wouldn't like it.

I could get by without even having to let the line run, but I love my ropes, and I try to take care of them every way I can, and this would lessen the shock, which would make me feel better

I will not use chains to mount the tire here, but will use tenex. I use chains on my truck. If you get them big enough they don't break easily (i know they can).

Carl

 

[MasterBlaster]

Carl, just get on up there and climb it. Use a pulley to spare your rope. Forget the tire/chain idea.

 

[njarbor]

lol my spikes are two different lenghts .. granted they are handme downs

 

[Stumper]

Carl, Thanks for clarifying. I'm still confused about what you are tring to do though. You are going to rope out a heavy top but you aren't willing to climb it except to set the ropes? This is a dead pine but it has multiple leaders with included angle crotches? Certainly not a typical scenario. I wish you could post a picture. How much weight are we talking about? How much freefall to impact? Do you have a ropehandler who can let things run for a few feet? Are you alone and have to let it drop into a secured line? Frankly' if you are in a situation where you have to let too much weight drop and are worried about safety it may be time for more equipment/a sub with a bucket. FWIW if you want to rig for shock absorption but without a helper to let things run a little you can do it solo by running your rope through a figure 8 or two and anchoring the line with a few feet of slack that can run through the 8 before "landing " on the anchor. if you do that don't try really heavy stuff. Go slow while you are learning how everything reacts.

 

[rbtree]

Lumberjack,

The tire idea is valid and would work. However, a portawrap is designed to make it easy for most anyone with a tad of training to allow the load to run a bit, and keep shock loading to a minimum. One problem with the tire idea, is that it is good to have the line pretightened to reduce initial load drop. This is hard to do when the p-wrap is mounted high as would be the case with a tire under it.

 

[NeTree]

Carl,

I didn't respond to the the tire idea for a reason- I think it's unprofessional in appearance and practice, and potentially very unsafe, and I think you're capable of better.

You have shown up on this site and fired away with questions, and that displays a desire to learn the right way to get things done- a commendable trait. Don't get offended now! The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask. Everyone here has had their share, whether they'll admit it or not.

You're describing one of those kinky pines with multiple tops and leads that go all over. They look pretty complicated, but aren't. Broken down into more manageable steps, they aren't so bad. We get trees like that all the time, and they used to somewhat intimidate me, at least mentally.

Don't look at that tree as a whole, but rather a bunch of smaller, less complicated series of steps. Think one step and one top at a time, and you just may amaze yourself and gain some confidence in the process.

.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Don't look at that tree as a whole, but rather a bunch of smaller, less complicated series of steps. Think one step and one top at a time, and you just may amaze yourself and gain some confidence in the process.
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And keep yur sanity!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Here jsut for discussion is a 'snubber' with tire in less volatile position. It won't shear as easily, for you set the ultimate stretch,and even if it did shear, the load would not be dependant on it.

Also, you don't have to redirect line to low horizontal to tighten because of length of tire places adjsutment out of reach. Tires are tough!

Taking the immediate,momentary intense loading of dynamic shock out of system sounds good to me!

Though ya might have other easier strategies, and less impacting than most here would worry about all this with, especially running a line on a block and Porty to dissipate shock.

:alien:

 

[NeTree]

Spidey, safety-wise that would work well, and would indeed reduce some shock load.

But realistically, I have two problems with that.

1) By the time you set all that stuff up, I could have rigged the tops out already.

2) If a customer of mine saw me using an old tire in a setup, they'd start to wonder about my faculties... no matter how well it worked.

 

[ORclimber]

Lumberjack,

NEtree's origional suggestion is a good one. Even if you only worked a day here and there you could pick up a lot from someone more experienced. Much easier to learn from someone elses mistakes than make them on your own. I work with several other arborists in various capacities and learn from all. I'll work for free for the right knowledge.

Here's a pic of my friend Reed taking down a dead fir a week ago. He's 6'5", the tree had been dead 2 years. The tree had lot's of conks which he ID'd as red ring rot. He knew from experience the strength of dead Doug-fir and could judge that the red ring rot wouldn't have significantly affected the stuctural integrity of the tree. He went all the way to the top and man handled every piece.

 

[treeman82]

If it's got multiple tops, why not just tie in to one while you bomb the other out? All you are doing is pulling them over, right? Last top, set your rope, come down to where you want to cut, tie in to a stem you already cut, cut the last piece. Repeat.