Good Or Bad Practice?

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YUKON 659

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kendall n.y.
I've never done this before so I'm asking for your help. I have a removal to do soon....about a 24" DBH Red Maple maybe 50' tall with good size crown. The question I have is ....is it ok to fell a tree like this across the homeowners asphalt driveway? It's the only place for it to go. If it isn't ok, the tree can be rigged down. I bid the job pretty low so I was hoping to just fall the tree. Any thoughts?

Thanks, Jeff
 
The immediate answer is, it depends. What part of the tree is going to hit first? Can you use logs to protect the driveway? When the tree does hit, will the force be spread over a large area, or is it concentrated?

Are you putting your notch close to ground level, or will it be a foot or two up?

Is the driveway immaculate? will they mind scratches and dents, or do they want it spotless?

Questions I have. Now only if I had the answers...

love
nick
 
you must consider what parts of the tree will impact the asphalt. it doesn't take a great deal of force to deform/pierce asphalt.

if only the top small stuff will reach the drive you're likely okay. if the larger lower horizontal limbs will hit the drive you'd be better off rigging it.

if there is much of a bare bole, enough to reach over the drive, and the ground is flat or uphill past the drive so that the spar will be suspended after felling, use an open face undercut as near to the ground as possible and drop it.

time is cheaper than asphalt of course.
 
You could use a bunch of tires to absorb the impact. But I think it would probably take longer to load and unload them tires then it would to just climb up the tree and piece it apart.
 
Good answers, all. I would add that the more brush/limbs you leave on the felling side the more the impact of the trunk will be distributed across the landing zone.
If the limbs are over 4, or 5 in. a flush kerf undercut will further absorb the impact of the limb.
LEAVE NO STUBS. The flusher the cuts, the better all the way around.

Their is also the possibility of hollow spots under the driveway, especially older ones. This relates more to outrigger setups, but it can also arise to bite you in this situation also. Just keep that in mind.:)

In the final analysis if you even think yur gonna damage anything, rig the sucker down.

Don't EVER be hesitant to rig something down. Take yur time and do it the slower way, if you deem that necessary. Cheaper in the long run.
 
Good patch of advice so far. I can add one of my "tricks"...
Make yourself a wide hinge and stop your back-cut as soon as you know the tree's going over. Doing that will cause a much slower fall than if you kept going further.
 
Originally posted by netree
Make yourself a wide hinge and stop your back-cut as soon as you know the tree's going over. [/B]

Erik, doing that would invoke a 'catapult effect'

You know? Like that Sherrill t shirt/poster 'The tree climber's convertible'?

Booooiiiinnnngg! I kinda like them rides! :)
 
i see... i think that i'd rather just chop the limbs out however...leaving enough wood to keep the limb in the tree also leaves potential for the limb to break some place other than your cut and stub out, possibly damaging whatever is trying to be preserved.

but i can see how it may be a useful trick at times.
 
Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Erik, doing that would invoke a 'catapult effect'

You know? Like that Sherrill t shirt/poster 'The tree climber's convertible'?

Booooiiiinnnngg! I kinda like them rides! :)

Not me, i think the safety and the art is in getting the top to detatch as smoothly, cleanly and imperceptably as possible. For, making it through that day as well as using that extreme instance to play more in the direction of exercising and test monitoring survival s-kills for when i possibly, really, really need them; or their habits save the day unknowingly. i seek excite-meant there in that challenge; that can be a whole lot tougher! i remember looking down from a whipping pine spar 50+' up, down into neighbor's pool, 'nough fer me!!

i might joke about convertible letting ground folk know where we're heading (so to speak); but lean far away from fraternalizing/drawing/reaching for that effect.

Maybe jest'gittin olde:Eye:; but 'eard there be worse thangs!

Ya might find old climbers;
and bold climbers.
But, not old & bold climbers;
Cuz' that herd gets thinned!

Orrrrrrrrr sometin like that!

-:alien:
 
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Situation Specific.

Block with logs across to bridge force over. Use solid log to transfer and spread out the shock, on ground only, not on drive. WideFace cut with high/high leverage pull (i think fishing pole technique/ovder the hill allows this with greater security...)and slower BackCut to force a stronger hinge to maybe hang on 1/2 the ride or more to deliver least amount of force to whatever ground preparations there are to recieve the minimized force of fall. This could essentially, fall it slower, and not let it start free falling for quite a while, most of the force is in the multiplier of the speed. Consider not felling directly into the lean axis, unless the shape of the tree bridges, absorbs shock etc. better on the lean side. Felling to the lean axis would be feeding directly in to the pull of gravity at it's maximum focus, with no 'distracting' pulls.

Never put anything hard (log-shock transferer) on drive, use logs to bridge over, the larger the 'footprint of the log-the farther out it spreads the force. If anything soft brush on the drive to compress, dissipate force, as bending branches, and that excellent tip about making them bendable with undercut. The idea is to leave it stiff enough though, to take the maximum force out of the equation in that bending, so don't make it too easy, by cutting too much. So leave these shock absorbing springs/shearpins to take more force out of the fall, even when they don't nature-ally exist.

i learnt 2 lessons about unseen movement, the harder, more expensive way. The more you use the stump to slow the fall (thru the hinge) or launch tree out; the stronger the stump's anchoring must be to resist the extra load in the hinge and hit. Laid a pine down one very nicely swaying thru some other trees on the way down, then throwing over the water meter, caught on a log butt on the other side. Water everywhere!:confused: ! Old codger from city comes out (broke on city side of meter), and eventually showed me how the roots where wrapped around the pipe, and the shifting underground broke the pipe, with out compression from the concussion of the tree falling!! Said he'd only seen it a few times, and it had to be explained to him the first time, by some ol'boy he worked with.....

Another time this sweet elderly lady kept bringing out water and homemade cookies, because she liked being reassured so much that we weren't gonna break her sidewalk; her passage to the world......... So we dutifully took logs from the back side we had rigged down in excess of 24", ~5' long on either side of the walk- chocked the one that could shift towards the walk. Hickory slams down magically floating over the now broken walk, as we tried to figure out if the the tree compressed the logs down and they sprang back up too fast to see or what???? Wiered looking circular break like a stick poked down, and went where? Moving everything, cleaning out the pieces of concrete after the tree was gone revealed a massive loose root in the hole, that came out where the closest log/bridge was and had this massive bruise on top and was compressed into the ground-breaking the cement up from the bottom of the walk !!

Also on that fall there was a lot of weight leanig over the house on the backside of the fall. One of the largest branches halfway up, i rigged to the top of the front side of the fall, and let hang, tlocking it off. So, i din't have to remove as much backweight in the felling, for i now not only removed the back weight at mid leverage, i made it a counter balance frothe rest of the backside weight, and at a higher leverage of pull. Works side to side too, to not just adjust balance of fall across the hinge by removing a limb, but use it as a counter balance too; rigging higher than limbs original connection gives more leverage. Keeping it hanging low and inside keeps it traped from wandering/throwing around, also helps pad shock. Ours have alwasy ended up neatly under the fall, but i always look for possibility of loose piece swinging/throwing of roped piece, and use old rope, just in case! Though it is a rare strategy, it has saved hours of taking out the hardest, riskiest stuff, giving it the power to 'piggyback' down inthe balance. Recycle! i ***** all weight as pulling in 2 directions, from what point of leverage (gives 3 dimensions). Usually one of the directions is target, then balance pulls 90* either way from that, so i have used this on both axises; to the fall and across the fall.
 
Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Erik, doing that would invoke a 'catapult effect'

You know? Like that Sherrill t shirt/poster 'The tree climber's convertible'?

Booooiiiinnnngg! I kinda like them rides! :)

Ever try it?
 
Thanks for the tips everyone....I'll let you know the outcome when the job is finished.
Brian, when you make reference to "proping" the trunk, is that the tecnique of using the logs along the driveway?:confused:
I like the idea of a fat hinge...I did this with recent removal and it seemed like the tree was falling in slow motion. Very minimal damage to the homeowners lawn.:D

Thanks again, Jeff

Oh yeah, with all your help I might be answering these questions someday.....hell I might even be good...I mean GREAT at what I do!!!!!:D
 
Jeff,
I've felled a few across driveways successfully before, without climbing...or breaking concrete. I had already done other removals in the same yard though, and so I had some substantial size logs to use to break the fall of the trunk. They must be laid parallel to the drive, one on each side of the drive, and each must lay at least a couple of feet away from the edge of the drive. This is to keep the impact from creating a sink hole too close to the drive's edge. Rolling them to location is a task within itself. A "Cant Hook" or Bobcat will help.
If you do it this way make sure that you fell it properly and lay it directly across the middle of the two logs. Make sure the two logs are long enough to account for some bounce and/or possible roll.
 
If ya use big logs and have to move them by hand, make'em round to roll , even for straight roll. If you need to turn one, the longer it is the more leverage resistance to making it turn. Roll on top of a small piece of wood to balance, maybe lean on light end and turn to any position. Balance!

:alien:
 
Just wanted to let you guys know how the job went. I didn't fall the tree across the driveway...I did't want to take any chances. We decided to rig what we had to and and bomb the rest of it out. Other than the driveway we had a pretty good size landing zone. My climber (my son Kurt) did an excellent job on this tree as well as the others we have done in the past few months. It's nice to watch his progress as a climber :) He attended an Arbormaster training class over the summer and it's amazing what it did for his confidence as a climber!!! We are still working within our comfort zone but with each job things seem to be going a lil' better.

Thanks again, Jeff
 
A late entry...

I'll add to what MB suggested about making pre-cuts.

When a tree has a limb that comes out from the trunk but is perpendicular to the trunk I wouldn't want to flop the tree onto it. That would make the limb stick in the ground and then make the tree roll. Instead, I'll make some half cuts on the bottom and then staggered down some half cuts on the top. By making several of these snap cuts, when the first point hits the ground the limb will fold in and lay flat.

Another variation is to make a face cut on the top and a partial back cut. If the cuts are placed right the tree will fold into itself.

A fellow who worked for me several years ago had worked for Asplund doing right of way clearing. There spec was to leave no brush more than four feet above the ground. If they flopped a tree then they had to go back in and brush it down to lay everything flat. He would go up into the tree and make a load of pre-cuts all over the tree. When the tree hit the ground the whole thing folded up like an umbrella. No cutting on the ground.

With some planning, variations on these ideas can be used as energy dissipators. Kind of like shock absorbers or the opposite of Yates Screamers.

Tom
 
i think there can be more bonuses with that, as that branch that isn't removed so it won't dig into the ground('cuz now will fold), can also help function to pull the tree to target/offset back weight. As well maintain a lower C.o.B. that it is now easier to take leverage over to force hinge stronger; and the hinge with the lower C.o.B. will have less leveraged load and even though made stronger!

A slight leaner to target or backwards would be easier to pull to face too with lower C.o.B..

Or something like that!
:alien:
 

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