Got My 'Class B' Certification This Weekend

[Philbert]

Thanks to a posting on A.S. (sorry, I can't remember who) I found out about saw training conducted by the USFS. It took some digging, a few blind alleys, and a few wrong answers from people answering the phones, but I was able to attend a session this past Sunday.

Employees of the Superior National Forest held the sessions, primarily intended for trail clearing/maintenance volunteers, but open to the public. I help to train volunteers, so was interested to see what they taught and how they taught it. This was safety, brush clearing, and storm damage on the ground type stuff - not felling or 'complex' work.

It is always hard to guess how I would have perceived the course if I had never used a saw before. But even as someone who has, I learned quite a bit of new things, and reinforced some other things. Each of the instructors was knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and patient

Since use of chainsaws is restricted in wilderness areas, we also were able to learn how to use, maintain, and get certified with single and double crosscut saws - the big 5'+ ones we usually only see hanging on a wall some place. I learned a lot about those.

The classes use this book for instruction, which is a good reference on its own:
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/{D25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1}/SAWYER HANDBOOK.PDF

It's a pretty busy week right now, but I will try to post some pictures when I can get to them. If interested, call your nearest USFS area office and ask if they offer it in your area.

Philbert

 

[murf]

That's as cool as a tool Philbert! Although I was expecting a CDL story!

Mind if I ask what it cost ya to take the course?

I'm wishin' this would be offered here in my area, but I ain't holding my breath!

Thanks for posting it!

Murf

 

[alderman]

Thanks for the link.

 

[Philbert]

Mind if I ask what it cost ya to take the course?
I'm wishin' this would be offered here in my area, but I ain't holding my breath!

It was free.

As noted, I got a lot of 'we don't offer any training to the public' responses from people answering the phone at area National Forest offices, until I got the, 'Oh yeah, we do that every year' one.

If they don't think that they offer training, ask if they have a 'volunteer coordinator', or 'saw coordinator', or 'trails coordinator'. Or ask if they have any training for potential wildland fire fighters. Might get you through to someone who knows more? I learned about it from someone on A.S., so happy to pass it on.

Philbert

 

[Rudedog]

"Since use of chainsaws is restricted in wilderness areas,...."



Why is that?

 

[Philbert]

"Since use of chainsaws is restricted in wilderness areas,...." Why is that?

All motorized equipment is prohibited in designated wilderness areas; this only applies to portions of the national parks and forests, such as the Boundary Waters Canoe Wilderness Area here in Minnesota.

Philbert

 

[Gunther274]

Hey Philbert where are you from in northern mn?

Was that class by chance called S-212?

 

[MCW]

I'm glad you learnt something mate. Being run by the USFS you'd expect them to know what they're doing.
The Advanced Large Tree Felling course I did was a joke. I learnt absolutely nothing but did teach the instructor a few things. It was the first course he'd run (dare I say it the last), and how he ever got the accreditation I'll never know. Running a large tree felling course when the biggest saw the instructor owned is an 029 with a 20" bar didn't sit well. He loved and endorsed heavily angled backcuts which says it all, even arguing with me when I told them they are a big no no.
I nearly drove about 500km to do the same course again in an area where the course would have been run by actual forestry guys who do know what they're doing (Mount Gambier, South Australia). I'm sure I'd have learnt a lot there.

 

[Mill_wannabe]

Thanks for the link!

 

[slowp]

I'm glad you learnt something mate. Being run by the USFS you'd expect them to know what they're doing.
The Advanced Large Tree Felling course I did was a joke. I learnt absolutely nothing but did teach the instructor a few things. It was the first course he'd run (dare I say it the last), and how he ever got the accreditation I'll never know. Running a large tree felling course when the biggest saw the instructor owned is an 029 with a 20" bar didn't sit well. He loved and endorsed heavily angled backcuts which says it all, even arguing with me when I told them they are a big no no.
I nearly drove about 500km to do the same course again in an area where the course would have been run by actual forestry guys who do know what they're doing (Mount Gambier, South Australia). I'm sure I'd have learnt a lot there.

Very few people in the Forest Service run saws. The certification process started after there were some injuries and deaths. Our certification guys are trail guys. To keep your certification, you have to cut for them every year. We also have a former production cutter who works with our guys and is under contract. He also goes to other areas and puts on training. That guy grew up in a falling family and is well known and respected.

For those of you with Backcountry Horsemen groups in your area, they usually spend a day certifying also, and might be of help.

You can also just get certified as a bucker.

Everytime I go get recertified, I learn something new.

 

[lawnmowertech37]

That's as cool as a tool Philbert!

Although I was expecting a CDL story!

Mind if I ask what it cost ya to take the course?

I'm wishin' this would be offered here in my area, but I ain't holding my breath!

Thanks for posting it!

Murf

same here

 

[MCW]

Very few people in the Forest Service run saws. The certification process started after there were some injuries and deaths. Our certification guys are trail guys. To keep your certification, you have to cut for them every year. We also have a former production cutter who works with our guys and is under contract. He also goes to other areas and puts on training. That guy grew up in a falling family and is well known and respected.

For those of you with Backcountry Horsemen groups in your area, they usually spend a day certifying also, and might be of help.

You can also just get certified as a bucker.

Everytime I go get recertified, I learn something new.

Thanks for the reply mate, for some reason I would have expected the USFS guys to be a bit more saw proficient but I suppose there is a lot more to forestry than just chainsawing
It would be great to have a guy like the fella that trained you in my neck of the woods.

 

[Philbert]

Hey Philbert where are you from in northern mn? Was that class by chance called S-212?

I live in Saint Paul.

Not sure that there was a formal name/number for the class, or maybe there was and I was un-aware of it.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

The Advanced Large Tree Felling course I did was a joke. I learnt absolutely nothing but did teach the instructor a few things. . . I nearly drove about 500km to do the same course again in an area where the course would have been run by actual forestry guys who do know what they're doing.

This class was not on felling - just basic safety and bucking; chainsaw and crosscut saws.

But I have to agree on the instructor thing - you can really tell when an instructor knows what he/she is talking about, and when they have a passion for teaching and the topic. Big difference than someone reading from a script or PowerPoint.

Philbert

 

[MCW]

This class was not on felling - just basic safety and bucking; chainsaw and crosscut saws.

But I have to agree on the instructor thing - you can really tell when an instructor knows what he/she is talking about, and when they have a passion for teaching and the topic. Big difference than someone reading from a script or PowerPoint.

Philbert

Yeah there is a big difference. I also had to do a basic chainsaw competency course that was run by the same guy. He ran this course faultlessly and being an ex Stihl shop owner and tech I learnt quite a few things. Unfortunately his ability to run a tree felling course was very substandard. Everybody passed too despite some pretty dangerous techniques being used by basically everbody except myself and another guy.

 

[Philbert]

Yeah there is a big difference. I also had to do a basic chainsaw competency course that was run by the same guy. . . Unfortunately his ability to run a tree felling course was very substandard.

Do trees fall the same way down under? Isn't gravity reversed or something?

One of the fun things from our course was getting one of the guys to admit that sometimes they use explosives to 'mitigate' very hairy trees. They aren't looking to make lumber, just to bring down dangerous dead and hanging trees. As an added benefit, the explosive dropped trees have rough edges that look more 'natural' on the ground than trunks that are cleanly sawn.

Apparently, that is a more advanced course, as they did not let us certify for dynamite or C-4 or anything like that.

Philbert

 

[MCW]

Do trees fall the same way down under? Isn't gravity reversed or something?

Nah they fall wherever mate. On cars, roads, people's houses etc. You've got to do a humbolt danish dutchman at 23 degrees to get them to fall where you want them

Apparently, that is a more advanced course, as they did not let us certify for dynamite or C-4 or anything like that.

Philbert

They wouldn't certify you to use C4? Whats wrong with the world...

That'd be great fun..

 

[slowp]

Thanks for the reply mate, for some reason I would have expected the USFS guys to be a bit more saw proficient but I suppose there is a lot more to forestry than just chainsawing
It would be great to have a guy like the fella that trained you in my neck of the woods.

In this neck of the woods, there aren't even many foresters in the Forest Service. Most of the people are biologists of some kind. Most don't like saws and a few are even hard to get away from their computers, especially if it is raining. Times have changed.

We watch a video also on falling and bucking. I'm just a bucker. Sometimes even that can get interesting.

 

[AT sawyer]

I just re-certed for felling and bucking last weekend. Our sawyer cards are good for three years and the course required wilderness first aid and CPR. The instructors evaluated students and granted A beginner or B intermediate status based on their skills. Some people picked it right up and others needed more time. This was my fifth recert since 1997, and each one was worthwhile.

The only wild card I saw was in the saws. Although the instructors had Stihls and Huskys, the students brought their own saws.......... in various states of operability. The instructors wouldn't allow any saws without chainbrakes.

I think I posted something here a while back on trail clubs sponsoring training through the USFS. If you can't find a USFS office near you, find a trail club, as they seem to be everywhere. Best place to locate a club is through an outfitter like REI or Gander Mt. Go to the store and find the poster board where they display nearby outdoor activities. There should be some kind of trail club info there.

 

[Philbert]

Thanks AT - I might have found this from one of your posts.

Philbert