GRIGRI & 13mm

[Tree Machine]

After taking a look at the descender below

I see that there is a place for tieing up.

The term is 'locking off' A 'soft lock' will offer enough friction to hold you in place, but by pushing (feeding) the rope up (from below the device) you can adjust yourself downward. 'Hard lock' locks you in place, period. You have to remove the rope from the lockoff position to continue downward. A good device should allow both soft lock and hard lock, though soft is used most often, unless you plan to spend a lot of time hanging out at one level (cabling, for example).

Somebody tell me if this isn't the most ideal way about it or not.

No.

The 8 in tandem with a Blakes Hitch would be cost efficient and ultra smooth I think.

Complicated, time consuming, requiring two hands to do any moves. Why not just use the Blake's alone? Why stick an 8 in the midst. You use an 8 so you don't have to use a hitch.

 

[Tree Machine]

Is there a definitive answer regarding using 13mm line in Gri Gri's which are rated for 11mm? Do larger lines push out on the cheeks when they flatten under load?

Again, is their any first hand experience "regarding using 13mm line in Gri Gri's"?

Here's the official answer; Don't use a device on a rope size for which it is not rated. The GriGri is not rated for 13 mm line.


The unofficial, I have used it on 13 mm line many, many times. Back when I climbed on 13 mm line I played with it, experimenting on my own, SRT and on doubled rope as a replacement for a friction hitch. It wouldn't do dual line, though, so I moved on.

I use it for taking down tall, thin trees from the bottom up (tight area, can't fell it); anchor 13 mm line to the top of the tree being taken down, run it through a crotch of an adjacent, larger tree. anchor the grigri to the base of the nearby tree with a lifting sling, run the 13 mm rope through the GriGri and pull as much slack through as you can. Cut the base of the tree to be taken down. Take out a 16" block, slide the tarp underneath and then lower the tree to where it just touches the tarp. Cut out another 16" block, lower with the GriGri, repeat until you're into brush. Limb it out into a pile onto the tarp. All the mess is really tidy, sawdust and all.

I don't think the trees I've done like that were more than 4 or 5 times my weight, but the GriGri works really well. Oh, by the way, you should NOT use a GriGri in this manner.

 

[Tree Machine]

I use it in a 3:1 configuration to hoist sometimes, again with 13 mm.

 

[newsawtooth]

Thanks for the input TM. I will stick with the modified prussick prana combo for SRT until a better mechanical device emerges or I switch to lighter line.

Why do you like the option of using a double line?Ease of foot locking? For clarification, I am referring to a rope that is hung equally from a TIP where both ends remain on the ground for ascent not DRT.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Here's the official answer; Don't use a device on a rope size for which it is not rated.

... used it on 13 mm line ... for taking down tall, thin trees ...

Oh, by the way, you should NOT use a GriGri in this manner.

Good idea! I've done "bottom up" this way a lot, as a leaner, ie. without the tie-off and lowing line. It's a neat, tidy technique.

Oh, by the way, I would NOT use a GriGri in this manner.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

I use it in a 3:1 configuration to hoist sometimes, again with 13 mm.

Apparently, a GRIGRI with 13mm can easily function with a higher load than a climber's weight.

Have you noticed any 'wear' issues?

It seems the RAD (Yo-Yo) method is the only way to replace the friction hitch with a GRIGRI for DdRT (2:1) & SRT. I'm not convinced the pulley is necessary, yet.

Also, the GRIGRI does not seem foot-locking friendly. True?

If a 'DOUBLE' GRIGRI existed, would that change your opinion about using it as a climbing/workiing/descending aid?

 

[Tree Machine]

Thanks for the input TM.

Why do you like the option of using a double line?Ease of foot locking? For clarification, I am referring to a rope that is hung equally from a TIP where both ends remain on the ground for ascent not DRT.

Newsaw, I could go on and on. For clarification, though both ends of the climbing line are on the ground, it isn't hung equally. It can be hung equally, or one end can be just touching the ground and the remainder in a pile or in your rope bag, OR both ends can be up in the air (i.e. 150 foot rope, 80 foot tie-in point) in the latter case, your first footlock would look like this:

For this you would sorta hip-thrust up to the point where you could get your heels over your stopper knots, then a couple more feet and you're good to go..... now this is a rarity, and not recommended, but when you ace an 80-footer on the first shot, you just don't want to pull it so you can try again for a lower crotch. SRT wouldn't have allowed this, nor DdRT. Twin line, it was like, cool, this adds an interesting element of challenge. Once up there you can reset your rope lower.

I'f Id have had to pull that 80 footer out, you know dang well it would be 3 or 4 more failed shots before nailing one at 70 feet.

 

[Tree Machine]

Why do you like the option of using a double line?Ease of foot locking? For clarification, I am referring to a rope that is hung equally from a TIP where both ends remain on the ground for ascent not DRT.

I could go on and on, but that would be a definite derail of this GriGri thread.


I'll offer one of the reasons, not even in the top 5 of my favorite reasons, but it goes back to something SingleJack said earlier, big hands. On twin line, you grab the rope with your hands (as we all do) an 11 mm line is 22 mm, as far as your hands are concerned.


Also, Newsawtooth, it's not a double line. That would be TWO lines. I like to use the term twin, or twin parallel. Many call it doubled static.

Also, I don't use it as an option, I use it because of the different options it offers.

 

[Tree Machine]

Have you noticed any 'wear' issues?

After 10 years??? Yea.... it looks like it's ben dragged behind a truck. However, I inspect it frequently and pay close attention for any type of change in look or feel, in opening, closing, installation and in use. It works just like the day I bought it.

It seems the RAD (Yo-Yo) method is the only way to replace the friction hitch with a GRIGRI for DdRT (2:1) & SRT. I'm not convinced the pulley is necessary, yet.

You mean, specifically, for ascent 2:1 and SRT. Nothing additional is needed for descent.

For RAD ascent you need a rope grab above to act as a hoist point because you'll be hoisting yourself up a few inches, moving the rope grab up, hoist again.... all so you can use the GriGri on both ascent and descent. I'd rather swallow glass.

Also, the GRIGRI does not seem foot-locking friendly. True?

Only possibility is in RAD configuration for ascent. Please refer to the 'I'd rather eat glass' comment. The GriGri is not designed or intended for ascent. True, you can work it out so that you can, but at a great cost of efficiency and extra pieces.

If a 'DOUBLE' GRIGRI existed, would that change your opinion about using it as a climbing/working/descending aid?

I'd have to try it, for sure. It would need to, as stated earlier, be able to control one or the other side independently, or both sides simultaneously. That's what I'm used to and I find advantages in having that versatility.

 

[Tree Machine]

Why do you like the option of using a double line?Ease of foot locking?

Parallel, twin, doubled static, = twice the rope at your feet, twice the friction. You minimize the friction at the dual ascender above you and you maximize the friction at your feet, below you. It's a combo that makes it almost like cheating, compared to a DdRT friction hitch system (or any 2:1 or Z ascent method).


Climber's try to find advantage wherever they can get them. This is a big one.

Sorry that this thread keeps getting derailed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

A dual GriGri could be an ideal pairing with the single handle dual ascender.

I'm not the first to have thought of this dual GriGri. Here's a conversation in this GriGri data report



"Gary, I hear you don't like the Grigri."

"Yes."

"In fact, I heard you say that it ______."

"Not exactly, but I'll go along with that, for my purposes."

"Tell me one thing - just one thing - wrong with the Grigri!"

"You can't use it to rappel on doubled rope."

"OK, tell me another."

"Well, since I'm now carrying another device to let me rappel on doubled rope, it weighs more than nothing and is bigger than nothing."

 

[Tree Machine]

A double-GriGri would not offer good slack-tending , just by itself. You'd have to work for it.

In a dual-line belay device, you want friction maximal on the out and minimal on the in. You want the tending-side friction to be so minimal that at about 40 feet, there is enough rope weight below you that it pulls it's own self through the friction device as you climb upward toward your tie-in point, true self-tending. Double gri-gri wouldn't allow this.