Groundies - Good ones are hard to find...

[amundson_cj]

Man it is hard to find a good groundsman. I resceduled a job last week because my three groundsman were tired. Then they asked me for a pay advance because they were broke.

Today they go out to the rescheduled job to finish and call me to let me know that it is rainy and windy and they don't want to work. I said tough and told them it would more than likely be worse tomorrow so get it done today and I would let them have the day off (even though I have a job scheduled).

Then around 10:00am the my lead ground guy calls and they can't start the chipper when they got out to the job. Told them to call me back if a few or I would call them to let them know what's going on. I arranged a dump location near their jobsite and called and left directions, phone numbers, and exactly what I wanted them to do on the message. At noon they call and have a yard full of brush, the climber is getting out of the tree and they say they are going on strike if they have to load the brush into the truck versus chipping it. Their only note was that they aren't paid to do that and it isn't their responsibility if equipment breaks down. I told the lead that he was a groundsman and I paid him to drag brush and move wood. Where the brush or wood goes shouldn't be the concern (chipper or truck - whatever). He then commented on striking and they would finish it up tomorrow. I told them to do it today or they were all fired. Needless to say I fired my whole ground crew, then proceeded to let them know that I would not hire any of them back.

I am paying $12, $14, and $15 per hour for each guy. None of them could drive the truck, do any climbing, didn't know their knots, left the climbers in the trees waiting on saws, couldn't sharpen, didn't take direction from the climber (which is key), were always late, constently took draws, etc...

I feel bad for the decision because I like the guys, but come on are you serious... Does anyone want to work anymore... Hopefully one of the temps will make a better longterm impression until I can find some new people.

 

[cordless saw]

Work? Why?

I can't say much about groundworkers but I do know alot about painters.

I have referred many painters to out of town foremen after the painter has come to me looking for work. Invariably the guy either does not show at all or is 3-4 hours late, usually without the courtesy of a phone call or explanation.

Thus I have reached the conclusion: Everybody wants work until they get it. At that point nobody wants to work they just want to be paid.

 

[clearance]

You should have been paying those guys what the are worth-too bad you couldn't- minimum wage laws. Truly pathetic, not suprised, just realize we really are doomed as a society. Many days when I was a groundsman, out to work in the rain/snow dragging loads of brush, uphill both ways to the chipper, buddy would get down from the tree or boom and help me finish, just the two of us. Good help is hard to find, seen lots of loser groundsmen, I remember the good ones. Sounds like two good guys would be better, good luck.

 

[Jumper]

Good luck finding someone out there. My personal experience is that the cream of the crop as far as performance and output( read guts/drive) goes are not attracted to this industry. As far as I could see at a few jobs I have worked at, I too was the only one who could drive, let alone a standard tranny (no license/expired license/suspended license for DUI/suspension for being a dead beat dad I saw it all), I do know my knots, kept the saws full, etc while some if not most of my co workers were "challanged" to put it mildly. The last guy I was with went through two other workers while I was there, just did not show one morning. And the guy before was fired. IMHO a pretty good boss, not a jerk, and reasonable, but the work was just too hard/hot/cold/wet/dirty/mind numbing/too low pay whatever for some. I worked there for three months until the season ended and probably will be back if nothing else pans out in there interim. There is a problem when a 47 year old can outwork a twenty something, sad but true. Used to really piss me off when I had to do all the driving while these clowns were asleep in the truck/smoking cigarettes or dope.
Not quite sure I would have fired all three, one must have had some redeeming qualities?? Maybe not, and it is your company, so I respect your decision.

 

[begleytree]

sounds like those 3 decided they were running the outfit, sounds like they were, really.
good job getting rid of them. they'll be calling soon, hold yourself to the promise you made. you don't need 'help' like that.
-Ralph

 

[Jumper]

sounds like those 3 decided they were running the outfit, sounds like they were, really.
good job getting rid of them. they'll be calling soon, hold yourself to the promise you made. you don't need 'help' like that.
-Ralph

They probably don't care.

 

[CITREEMAN]

OOOOOHHHHHH YA THAT ALL SOUND KIND OF FAMILIAR TO ME TO . ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND ANY GOOD HELP THESE DAYS, YA GET SOMEONE NEW AND TEACH THEM ALL YOU KNOW AND THEN THEY QUITE OR JUST DONT EVER SHOW UP UNTIL THERE MONEY RUNS OUT. SAD BUT TRUE

 

[amundson_cj]

I agree with getting rid of them but not all three at the same time and maybe not any of them at the present moment.

Firing a whole crew at once is a management failure IMO. Unless of course you can replace them in a few days.

Who is going to work tomorrow?

Of course, I have backups but they are not full-time just subcontractors.

 

[skwerl]

Many times subs will cost you less and will do a better job. Subs know that they are selling themselves one day at a time and are usually willing to do a better job in order to get 'repeat business'.

 

[CaseyForrest]

If I didnt have a wife, kids, mortgage, car payments, etc.....I would thourghly enjoy being a groundman at 12-15 per hour. I miss the hard work I used to do as a landscaper, or when I ran a Tree Spade. I dont, however, miss the seasonal work.... I would rather be employed year round.

 

[Twigg]

I would have gotten rid of everyone of them and not have a second thought about it. I have 3 ground guys and they bust their butts everyday. They work for alot cheaper than your guys did and they dont give any fuss about having to load anything by hand. I have been around alot of ground guys and the ones i have now are the best i have been around they even make the work site fun. And they want to work in any condition, forinstance it was raining today and they had no problem going out and working in it. 2 of them climb when we need them too.

 

[palmersfirewood]

I am a groundman. I keep saws sharpened and fill them up when needed, have no problem loading wood, can pull limbs, working on my knots, can drive (even a straight shift ), show up when I'm told, have brush ground when the climber/bucket man gets done (most of the time) and do what I'm told. All that for $10 and hour. But, I am really interested in getting into this bus and my boss is my teacher.

What would you guys pay someone who did that???

 

[Twigg]

i pay my guys who can do all that lus climb for 100 a day

 

[Jumper]

Probably not enough which is part of the problem in many cases, though amundson cj was certainly paying his guys more tha I ever have got.

 

[clearance]

Palmers-you deserve a raise, go and ask for one. If your boss objects show him this site. Amundson was paying guys $12-$15hr. and they were culls.

 

[amundson_cj]

I am a groundman. I keep saws sharpened and fill them up when needed, have no problem loading wood, can pull limbs, working on my knots, can drive (even a straight shift ), show up when I'm told, have brush ground when the climber/bucket man gets done (most of the time) and do what I'm told. All that for $10 and hour. But, I am really interested in getting into this bus and my boss is my teacher.

What would you guys pay someone who did that???

Seriously, I would pay someone with that many saws wanting to learn the business and stick with it around $16-$17 per hour. The cost of living in Seattle is really high though so it would be more like $13 per hour in your region.

You should show your boss some of the various site info about groundmen and ask for a raise.

 

[Jumper]

You put it a lot more clearly than I did. You just do not attract a lot of high quality/long term employees at $10 an hour. You get people passing through waiting for something better, or pathetic excuses for human beings in many cases. Pay em $15 and demand/insist on productivity, because you likely will not have so much trouble getting someone else. Let's get serious here, who with any gumption at all would spend anything more than a minimum of time in a position at $10 requiring what is expected of a competant groundman?
Either they would be learning to to climb real quick or would be looking for a job elsewhere that either paid more or paid the same and required a lot less physical output.

 

[Jumper]

You should show your boss some of the various site info about groundmen and ask for a raise.

First place I was at my dope smoking co worker Dan did exactly that, wanted $12 as V wanted him in a tree, and the boss fired him on the spot-I drove him to the bus. Funny thing is these people had money for fast food every night but had difficulty meeting their payroll even at $10 an hour!!! Needless to say the biz folded.

 

[Diesel JD]

Y'all gotta remember that $12-15/hr is in canuck bucks probably. But I don't blame him for firing them. I don't work in the industry except cut firewood for myself, but in my driving job, if I gave that many lame excuses and didn't want to work, it wouldn't take too long before I'd have my can sitting outside UNEMPLOYED and I make a fair bit less than your groundies.

 

[Jumper]

Those Canuck bucks are now worth .87 US, up from .64 about three years ago.

Mind you CA$12 includes health coverage which I some how imagine does not come with too many jobs at the wage level in the USA. Here in Toronto there are plenty of companies paying $10, and you see them looking for new workers all the time...wonder why. Who can live here on $10 an hour?

A good example taken from the Job Bank site

Title: Tree service technician (tree climber) (NOC: 2225)
Terms of Employment: Permanent, Full Time, On Call, Overtime, Weekend, Day, Night, Evening
Salary: $12.00 to $15.00 Hourly for 44 hours per week

This guy phoned me up last year desparate for a climber....hmmmmm. But there must be people out there willing to do it for that $$$.