Gvwr

[TheArborist]

Sorry to be a bit dense but...
I need a real lay friendly explanation.
I've been to the NC DOT website, read posts at this site, spoken with people and still am confused!
I have a 12,000lb(with two guys inside and fueled) dump truck pulling a 7000 chipper. I think I can put 6999 lbs in the bed and be under 26,000lbs GVW (CDL).
I see tongue weight referred to but not explained.
My understanding is that the total weight of the truck, load and what is being towed (in other words, the weight that must be stopped) is the crucial number.
I have an 8800lb pickup. Towing 7000lb chipper. I have it tagged for 18,000 lbs. I think I can carry 2199 lbs in the truck.
Many other nuances on this issue but just trying to start the question.
Many Thanks!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Sorry to be a bit dense but...
I need a real lay friendly explanation.
I've been to the NC DOT website, read posts at this site, spoken with people and still am confused!
I have a 12,000lb(with two guys inside and fueled) dump truck pulling a 7000 chipper. I think I can put 6999 lbs in the bed and be under 26,000lbs GVW (CDL).
I see tongue weight referred to but not explained.
My understanding is that the total weight of the truck, load and what is being towed (in other words, the weight that must be stopped) is the crucial number.
I have an 8800lb pickup. Towing 7000lb chipper. I have it tagged for 18,000 lbs. I think I can carry 2199 lbs in the truck.
Many other nuances on this issue but just trying to start the question.
Many Thanks!

I think i know what you are asking.

The combined weight of the two items becomes you "tare weight" or empty weight. It would not hurt to empty the truck and get a tare weight stencil with the DOT numbers.

Most places I've been you do not need to worry about a pull over and weigh if you have your DOT numbers on a medium truck.

Your best bet to see if you will ever go over is to go to a scale when you are full to the gills with the heaviest load of chip (persimmon?) you will ever get just to be sure you will stay legal.

 

[John D]

Not sure about NC,but NYS the actual weight empty isnt important in the DOT's eyes,its the max GVWR of the truck,trailer,combination.You cant get away with (for example) an F550 that weighs 11K empty,and its empty,towing a 14,000 gvwr dump trailer,even though the dump is empty and weighs only 5000 now. Your actual GCWR weight is only 16000 or so empty.You still need a CDL A because the GVWR of the F550 is 19,000 and the GVWR of the dump is 14000, so your potential GCWR is 33K.That is what they go by.The only want to change that would be a cheater trailer,which is common ,its a 14K trailer with a 9900 GVWR tag on it from the factory.Problem is if you need to load it heavy,you will be way over the 9900.Then youd need an F450, instead of a 550.16000 GVWR,so you'd then be 25900 GVWR,with that combination,and good to go without a CDL A.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

16000 GVWR,so you'd then be 25900 GVWR,with that combination,and good to go without a CDL A.

It read to me that he was concerned about running overloaded for his weight class.

 

[John D]

It read to me that he was concerned about running overloaded for his weight class.

I thought that,but he posting his actual weight numbers,which really dont matter,so long as they are under the maximum on the gvwr tag,and the registered weight covers it. What matters is the total combination of the GVWR tags of the vehicle,and trailer added up. So the chipper better have a 7000 GVWR tag on it,for his numbers to be right,if it has a 9000 tag,and weighs 7000,it is still considered 9000 when looking at the GCWR total.

 

[rcbuehler]

I hope this helps make some sense.

Sorry to be a bit dense but...
I need a real lay friendly explanation.
I've been to the NC DOT website, read posts at this site, spoken with people and still am confused!
I have a 12,000lb(with two guys inside and fueled) dump truck pulling a 7000 chipper. I think I can put 6999 lbs in the bed and be under 26,000lbs GVW (CDL).
I see tongue weight referred to but not explained.
My understanding is that the total weight of the truck, load and what is being towed (in other words, the weight that must be stopped) is the crucial number.
I have an 8800lb pickup. Towing 7000lb chipper. I have it tagged for 18,000 lbs. I think I can carry 2199 lbs in the truck.
Many other nuances on this issue but just trying to start the question.
Many Thanks!

It seems like you are looking at this a couple of different ways.
1. GVWR - Gross vehicle weight registered (per vehicle)
2. GCWR - Gross combined weight (tow vehicle AND trailer) registered
3. CDL requirements

When you say a 12K lb truck? Is that the actual weight or the weight stated on the registration?

Tongue weight is the weight that the trailer places on the hitch of the tow vehicle. Say you have a flat bed trailer weighing 2500 lbs. It has a GVWR of 7000 lbs. It's total allowed cargo would be 4500 lbs. 7000 lbs - 2500 lbs. Depending on where the load is placed on the trailer will determine tongue weight. The farther toward the tow vehicle it is will increase the tongue weight. Be careful with placing it to far back on the trailer or it can actually decrease the tongue weight enough to actually lift the back end of the truck.

The 8800 pickup. I assume that you are referring to the GVWR. Probably a 3/4 ton truck. I also assume that you are talking about the 7000 lb trailer being registered at 18000 lbs. I would be careful when loading it past the 7000lb limit. While it is registered higher you will not be overweight according to the registration, you will be exceeding the capacity of the GCWR of the vehicle and trailer.
I hope this helps a bit. Please reply with further questions or clarifications.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I was thinking about this and I am confusing two different issues.

CDL weight is a registration class that is a usage fee for heavy trucks that cause more wear on the roadways.

This is different from roadway weight restrictions that can get you fined for over weight travel. E.g. you are on a 3 ton bridge with a 11,500# load.

The former effects the latter only in the fact that they will look at you closer if you are in restricted areas. I've actually been pulled over for weight restricted roads in a International 4700 forestrybox and Bandit 200xp. I was under GCVR (barely) but got bee-itched at for not having tare weight.

 

[JS Landscaping]

I believe CDL Class A requirements is anything combined GCWR is 26,000lb and up correct? The company I work for doesnt have the Chippers registered, are they required to be registered in NYS? We regularly tow our Bandit 1590's by 2008 F-550's which have a GVWR of 19k. Are chippers considered a trailer? Or can they be not registered? We have never been pulled over due to lack of plates on our chippers...but I would imagine if they were registered we would all need Class A CDL's to pull these with our F550's.

 

[capetrees]

Your truck has a GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) stamped on the inside of the door on the driver side of the truck I believe. This is the maximum amount the truck is rated to carry, total weight, which means the weight of the truck and the load. If your one ton has a GVWR of 12,000 lbs. and the truck alone weighs say 5,000 lbs (tare weight), you are allowed to carry 7,000 lbs. Then, when trailering something, again, look at the GVWR stamped on the neck of the trailer. If its 7000 lbs, then you are still under CDL for a class A, which states that if the combined GVWR of the truck and trailer is 26,001 or above, a class A licence is needed. Its all about the GVWR. If your trailer has a GVWR for 7000 lbs, you can have a truck with up to a GVWR of 19,000 lbs before needing a class A.

 

[UpperCanadaTree]

Take a look under the traffic legislation for your state. Here in Ontario, a chipper is considered "Apparatus" which means that you cannot put anything on it or in it. Because of this, it is not added to our GVWR or GCWR. If there is a louphole for something like this, you don't have to worry. You'd have to look up the definition of "trailer" in your states rules.

 

[Rftreeman]

chip truck and chipper you can put 7000# in the truck and that will put you at the legal combined under cdl limit of 26,000 GVWR

the pickup w/chipper can hold 2200# for your total under cdl limit of 18,000 GVWR

now, If I remember correct the DOT officers go by the manufactures GVWR not what is tagged so if these trucks have less of a manufactures GVWR than tagged you may be over weight even if not at the tagged weight, I can't remember this for sure so you may want to call them and find out I also believe that over 10,000 GVWR you have to carry and use a drivers log book..........


my little one ton chip truck weighs 7640# and I pulled on the scales one day with a load of pine at 13760# that's 6120# on a one ton, it was packed so tight it didn't want to come out...........lol......glad I had good tires....

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

now, If I remember correct the DOT officers go by the manufactures GVWR

Here they will take you to a scale and go with actual weight.

 

[John D]

chip truck and chipper you can put 7000# in the truck and that will put you at the legal combined under cdl limit of 26,000 GVWR

the pickup w/chipper can hold 2200# for your total under cdl limit of 18,000 GVWR

now, If I remember correct the DOT officers go by the manufactures GVWR not what is tagged so if these trucks have less of a manufactures GVWR than tagged you may be over weight even if not at the tagged weight, I can't remember this for sure so you may want to call them and find out I also believe that over 10,000 GVWR you have to carry and use a drivers log book..........


my little one ton chip truck weighs 7640# and I pulled on the scales one day with a load of pine at 13760# that's 6120# on a one ton, it was packed so tight it didn't want to come out...........lol......glad I had good tires....

You only need a log book if you are interstate,and have a US DOT #. If you are in your state and have that states DOT #,no need for a log book until your over 18K .Im pretty sure of that.

 

[juststumps]

a few things you need to know

1: GVW = GROSS VEHICLE WT.

2: CGVW = COMBINED GROSS VEHICLE WT.

3: TRAILERS under 10,000 LB

4: TRAILERS over 10,001 LB

A: GVW under 26,000 LB , no CDL..
GVW ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pulling a trailer under 10,000 LB , no CDL
GVW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pulling a trailer over 10,000 LB , and the CGVW is under 26,000 LB , no CDL
GVW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pulling a trailer over 10,000 LB , and the CGVW is over 26,000 , CLASS A CDL

B: GVW over 26,000 LB , CLASS B CDL
GVW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pulling a trailer under 10,000 LB , CLASS B CDL
GVW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,pulling a trailer over 10,000 LB , CLASS A CDL


all this stuff is stamped , or on a sticker in the truck , and on the trailer...

that being said, just because you have a 15,000 lb GVW truck and a 9,000 lb GVW trailer , you can't carry 24,000 LB if the CGVW is only 21,000 LB... ( you could, but your not legal )

as far as weight limits on roads go,,,out here in NJ, they go by REGISTERED weight... so, even if you are running empty on a 10 TON bridge at 8 TONS , but registered at 14 TONS , or you're on a 4 TON road , (unless you are working on that road) you're getting a free coupon to visit the judge.... if they catch you.... which they do on slow days... or if enough people complain about the truck traffic...

hope this helps....

(as said in earlier posts, they do go by the door sticker, so you can't pull the "its only tagged for X pounds")

 

[juststumps]

Your truck has a GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) stamped on the inside of the door on the driver side of the truck I believe. This is the maximum amount the truck is rated to carry, total weight, which means the weight of the truck and the load. If your one ton has a GVWR of 12,000 lbs. and the truck alone weighs say 5,000 lbs (tare weight), you are allowed to carry 7,000 lbs. Then, when trailering something, again, look at the GVWR stamped on the neck of the trailer. If its 7000 lbs, then you are still under CDL for a class A, which states that if the combined GVWR of the truck and trailer is 26,001 or above, a class A licence is needed. Its all about the GVWR. If your trailer has a GVWR for 7000 lbs, you can have a truck with up to a GVWR of 19,000 lbs before needing a class A.

the magic number is under 10,000 LB on the trailer and a GVW on the truck under 26,000 LB your golden.. if the trailer is 10,001 LB and the trucks CGVW is 26,001 LB, now you need a CDL CLASS A..

 

[STLfirewood]

Here is what I don't understand. The DMV sold me plates for 30k for my 1-ton. I could have bought 36k,42k,48k,even 54k for it. But that wouldn;t make me legal just having those plates. So how can the sell me illegal plates? Also it's not just your weight rating. They will also check axle spacing if you are of a certain weight. The will add up the weight rating of your tires and see if you are over that. Don;t forget your hitch rating. What about that ball your using to pull the trailer. Then there is the receiver what's the rating on that. They can go on and on. I haven't been popped yet. Knock on wood.


Scott

 

[OLD CHIPMONK]

Scott; over here you need a CDL on anything tagged over 26,000 lbs. I suspect you don't need a tag for 30,000 on a pick-up . Go back & inquire. The empty weight is 4,500-5,000 lbs.( truck only) means you can probably carry 4,000 lbs.????? Gross weight 10,000-12,000 lbs.!!!!! Buy your tag accordingly, maybe 15,000 lbs gross weight ! That gives you some room for overload.

 

[juststumps]

Here is what I don't understand. The DMV sold me plates for 30k for my 1-ton. I could have bought 36k,42k,48k,even 54k for it. But that wouldn;t make me legal just having those plates. So how can the sell me illegal plates? Also it's not just your weight rating. They will also check axle spacing if you are of a certain weight. The will add up the weight rating of your tires and see if you are over that. Don;t forget your hitch rating. What about that ball your using to pull the trailer. Then there is the receiver what's the rating on that. They can go on and on. I haven't been popped yet. Knock on wood.


Scott

why would you buy a 30,000 LB plate to begin with ??????? around here , you pay more for the higher rate .... doesn't make sense to me...


plus, they don't care !!!! they will take your money..they are not illegal plates,, just useless on a one ton.... JMHO

 

[John D]

why would you buy a 30,000 LB plate to begin with ??????? around here , you pay more for the higher rate .... doesn't make sense to me...


plus, they don't care !!!! they will take your money..they are not illegal plates,, just useless on a one ton.... JMHO

A agree,but some states use the truck tag for the total GCWR,in that case,youd want the high tag on a 1 ton towing a 13K trailer. 12K on the 1 ton+ 13K, 25000 tag minimum. I run almost 24,000 with my 3/4 ton HD and 14K dump trailer.My trucks tagged at 9900 GVWR,trailer 14000. I have DOT # on magnets for when im towing,and an A CDL ,I havent been pulled over yet ,i see troppers all the time,they dont look twice at my rig.I have my fire extinguisher,road flares,and triangles,full spare fuses and bulbs,etc... truck,and trailer have current inspections,and in good shape.I hope im ok,but you never know ,if they want to give a ticket, they will find something wrong.When hauling firewood, im not engaged in commercial work,as its only for my own use,so im not sure those rules would even apply,I got the DOT # for when im using the dump,and my mowing trailer in my landscaping business.

 

[ropensaddle]

I have an a cdl but much of this stuff is like way too confusing.
I can't get home with out going over a bridge that is under rated
for my truck empty let alone loaded! I have always wondered about
that but for what you pay it is bs build a friggin bridge sheesh!
I have also went into restricted weight areas to work what are
you supposed to do I mean the work is there and I have equipment
to do it come on. I am intrastate and I have my business magnets
on the side but no dot# and I think I don't need them here but
if you call one day ask one simple question you get transferred
then the next day same question different result wtf.