Had me a little nervous.

[beastmaster]

I have had the pleasure of working with a really great crane operator. He is really good and I am, well still learning. So when he tells me something I listen. Today we did an Oak removal. It was next to a house, in a little valley so it was tall and skinny and had a nice lean to its many leaders.
Did half the tree, then the crane put me up in the top of one of the remaining leaders where I put the choker on. I Drt from the ball down 25 feet or so to where the leader was about 22in thick. The lean was such that It was hard to find a place I could gaff in, only opposite the lean. He tells me to make a wide face cut and he is going to slowly lift it up, against the lean and when its straight up and downI am to finish the cut. Bottom line I can't be standing(gaffed in)where Im at. Or could I of? I used my climbing line off a stub on the leader,(hanging down) then used my lanyard to stay close to the tree, so I am free floating then made the cut above my head.
It worked perfect, but I had no way or where to go if something went wrong.
The fact I am writing about it says it un-nerved me some. I know I have a lot of catching up to do on my crane experience, but is this a common Technic on crane removals?
Thinking about it later I was wondering if I should of stayed on the high side and just let the piece be lifted over my head? Thanks for any feed back or advice. Beastmaster

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm having troubles picturing your predicament. Generally I like to leave a stub as centrally located as possible to tie into, or set a friction-saver for false crotch. The idea is to plan the general operation ahead to make things go smoothly. Set the TIP in the tee, then start taking out one side, then maybe remove the top of that spar to get it out of the way of the backside...

The last ditch method is to remain tied into the cable until the load flies away....not a big fan of that, since i do not do much crane work.

 

[TreeAce]

I cant picture to well eithier. But it sounds like your CO knows what he is doing. Which is a good thing lol. You werent under the branch cutting were you? IDK..really cant picture it. Sometimes on a hard lean or a horizontal branch that is just to big to cut at the trunck I just end up sitting kind of. As far as standing up cuts with notches I have done it many times. The CO I work with is top notch so I am ok with what he says. I do my part by telling him what I see and we go from there.

 

[troythetreeman]

youre saying you undercut it and he pulled it vertical and then you finished the cut and he lifted it straight out? but you did this from the underside of the limb rather then the top side?
undercutting and pulling it vertical is a pretty common practice and works well
im not sure id have wanted to stand where you were tho, cant be sure
with cranes i do get a little nerved myself sometimes, youre taking massive pieces and really there is no where to go no matter how you do it, but between you and the crane guy stuff should go straight up and out, not roll or swing and certainly not drop down onto you
use 2 chokers where needed for control
another method that works well is choker in the middle, then you undercut horizontal to the ground, bring your top cut in more 90 degrees with the limb so your cut sort of resembles a "V", the butt will rest on your undercut like a shelf and they can lift it away smooth as butter
both methods have their place in a crane job
well done sounds like youre working with the right crane guy

 

[beastmaster]

Its hard to describe. Picture this" 60ft Oak, one leader shoots out at a 45deg. then branches out upwards, I put the choker on at the top and walk down 25 to 30 ft using my climbing line off the boom. There are no branches on this leader except at the top, so its just a 22in trunk at a 45deg angle were I have to make my cut. The CO tells me to make a wide face cut opposite the lean, then slowly back cut as he lifts it vertical. Where the heck do you make the cut from safely?
I hung down off the limb,(in mid-air)but used my lanyard(at a right angle) to stay close to the trunk and stabilize my self while cutting above my head. There is no safe place to be on a cut like that is all I am saying. If it was to twist or break early it'll possibly fall on you. Maybe I am just a wess, but I always like to have an escape route, even if its more in my head then reality. Enough said I am over it, I am lucky I get to work regularly with such an experienced and skilled crane operator. Jeff in Crestline your the best. Beastmaster

 

[troythetreeman]

if your crane guy is good at his job, you got the choker on right and you make nice cuts, id be perfectly comfortable on the tree with the open faced cut right in front of me, if the cut gives too soon the butt is going to fall down and away from you
once he has it vertical your golden

 

[beastmaster]

if your crane guy is good at his job, you got the choker on right and you make nice cuts, id be perfectly comfortable on the tree with the open faced cut right in front of me, if the cut gives too soon the butt is going to fall down and away from you
once he has it vertical your golden

Thank you! That is what I was wondering.

 

[DangerTree]

Thank you! That is what I was wondering.

I'm with him on that. The only thing that you should be watching is the swing path. Safety is your responsibility not the crane operators. Unless of course the crane operator wants to cut it. Just make sure he is hovering the swing away from vertical ever so slightly and there should be no problems. I always check that kind of stuff myself I trust no-one.

 

[thepheniox]

If the crane ever let go there is no safe spot.

 

[chad556]

This is what I am picturing in my head based on what your describing. It looks like it would work out but it would be scary as hell if something went wrong. Imagine if it shifted and that butt went right into your chest :msp_scared: Ouch.

 

[beastmaster]

This is what I am picturing in my head based on what your describing. It looks like it would work out but it would be scary as hell if something went wrong. Imagine if it shifted and that butt went right into your chest :msp_scared: Ouch.

That is almost it except I had a second line coming down just below the cut, so I was kind of free hanging off to the side.)feet dangling. knee up) Believe me I was imagining it even while doing the cut.

 

[TreeAce]

Was the crane on the opposite side of the tree than whats in the sketch? I just wonder why that limb needed to be stood up. I would def not like to be in that situation. But if the CO i use said we should do it like that then I would do it. I know of a couple of COs...well...it wouldnt matter cuz I prolly wouldnt even be in the tree LOL.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Is there a reason it needed to be stood up vertical? I generally just try to balance the majority of my picks. No effin around with notches and ####. Get the choker and the ball in the right place and it'll come off nice and easy with a one-cut. If it NEEDED to be stood up the shelf cut would probably be recommended though I don't have much experience in that one. It's hard when the crane clock is ticking not to feel rushed to just make the cut, but there's always a safe spot to be. What saw were you using? Couldn't you have positioned to the side of the cut and finished with the top of the bar?

 

[dbl612]

tick-tock

Is there a reason it needed to be stood up vertical? I generally just try to balance the majority of my picks. No effin around with notches and ####. Get the choker and the ball in the right place and it'll come off nice and easy with a one-cut. If it NEEDED to be stood up the shelf cut would probably be recommended though I don't have much experience in that one. It's hard when the crane clock is ticking not to feel rushed to just make the cut, but there's always a safe spot to be. What saw were you using? Couldn't you have positioned to the side of the cut and finished with the top of the bar?

if the climber and the op discuss the job and plan the safest (first priority), and most efficient way to remove the wood you don't hear the clock ticking, because the job is done and the crane has left the theatre. LOL.

 

[flushcut]

I think that pick should have been sooner in the picking order so you could have had a safer TIP than where you were. But then again I was not there nor did I see it.

 

[Blakesmaster]

if the climber and the op discuss the job and plan the safest (first priority), and most efficient way to remove the wood you don't hear the clock ticking, because the job is done and the crane has left the theatre. LOL.

In a perfect world they all look the same from the tree as they did the ground.:msp_razz: lol. I agree with what you're hinting at and flushcut said, seems the order of the picks could have been altered to allow a safer TIP, but things can change fast once your feet leave the ground.

 

[beastmaster]

Was the crane on the opposite side of the tree than whats in the sketch? I just wonder why that limb needed to be stood up. I would def not like to be in that situation. But if the CO i use said we should do it like that then I would do it. I know of a couple of COs...well...it wouldnt matter cuz I prolly wouldnt even be in the tree LOL.

Yeah, the crane was opposite of what the sketched showed. How did you know?
I my self would of been more comfortable finding center or a smaller pick or even a spider-line, with that being said, he's the expert(CO)and made the call, and it went like clockwork. I am not so much second guessing him, as trying to get my mind wrapped around that Technic. Any crane job your putting your life in someones else hands. That is a little scary for me. Beastmaster

 

[pdqdl]

There seems to be a shortage of answers here! I am not that good a climber, so I know what you are talking about. It's hard to work the bottom side of a leaner.

Wrap your climbing line around the trunk one full wrap, just a little lower than your buckstrap; use that as a lateral stabilizer to keep you on the side of the cut. Cross the wraps if it doesn't hold well enough. Stand up on your downhill spur against the lean, and use your buckstrap to lean against.

You remain double-tied, and (somewhat) safely secured at the right altitude and position for a good cut.

Drawback: with a wrapped climbing line, it might get tricky to come down if something went wrong.

2nd option: use a separate lanyard or rope to create a false crotch (probably with a cow-hitch) to hold you against the lean. Really safe, allows rapid descent, but takes more time and equipment to setup.

If it's just a crazy lean, you could do the same thing with some loopies for a foot-hold as well. Rig yourself a little rope ladder attached to the side of the tree to stand on. When I climb, I always go up with enough loopies to pull that kind of thing off without calling for help from the groundies. I go up with 4 each of 2', 3',& 4' loopies, each with it's own cheap carabiner. There is almost no way to exceed my supply of temporary hang points and re-directs. I mostly use them for speedline attachment.

 

[pdqdl]

By the way: that must have been pretty close to the crane pivot point or you had a really big crane. That sounds like a big, heavy piece of wood.

Cutting it off while falling/leaning away from the crane sounds like insanity, so you must have had a good crane operator that knew how to get it done and had confidence in your ability to do it that way.

 

[dbl612]

Tip

By the way: that must have been pretty close to the crane pivot point or you had a really big crane. That sounds like a big, heavy piece of wood.

Cutting it off while falling/leaning away from the crane sounds like insanity, so you must have had a good crane operator that knew how to get it done and had confidence in your ability to do it that way.

this is probably late in this discussion, but you stated that you were tied to crane tip with your climbing line while you were hooking up choker. would it of been safer to have the op position you for tie in to vertical leader, descend to area of choker attachment, connect choker to crane hook, then descend further to area of cut. i think you would have more freedom of movement and not have to cut above yourself. easier escape route? od must have thoughts on this, would welcome his input or any others with crane removal expertise. tom.