I agree with MIke on this one. Installing pullies or blocks does not take me or any of our crews any longer to do. Saving a rope is only 1 of the many advantages and in my opinun not the most important. Like anthing else things take practice and in this case the rewards are huge. Plus with installing false croctches you do not need any crotches. You can take the tree down on your terms. If using nature croches you are taking the tree dowm on its terms, the tree is telling you how to remove it.
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Tim Gardner
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Apparently I have given everyone the impression that I do not use or see the benefits of pulleys and friction breaks. This was not my intentions. I have used them and will continue to use them until someone comes up with better technology in the future.
I get so tired of reading posts quoting rope manufacturer’s bend ratios but at the same time say they use the friction of natural crotches for rigging. In one post they say something is bad for a rope and then in another post condone practices that are bad for rope. I guess I was venting and doing it in the wrong way.
I was a groundie for many years and I know how much better a pulley and port-a-wrap makes a job go as opposed to a crotch and a few wraps around the base of the tree. It is not easy for a groundie to talk seasoned climbers into new techniques but I did manage to get them to use a port-a-wrap and when needed a pulley or block. Even when I was only a groundie I realized that not every removal requires pulleys.
It does not take a rocket scientist to realize that on a removal that there is going to be a lot of roping from the same point that a natural crotch will get a groove in it that will cause increased friction and makes it hard to swing limbs out into the DZ or pull the line back up to the climber. Just judge the distance between the climber and pulley, tie a slip knot and yank the rope and it runs right up. Light pieces will usually not have enough weight to pull a 16 strand thru a natural crotch and the climber will have to feed the rope down. But, when using a pulley there is almost no friction so you have to use a port-a-wrap even on a small piece of wood or limb to keep it from running thru your gloves at a high rate.
I see a place for a pulley and a place for natural crotches. When doing pines and have to rope I will move the lowering line up as I go unless I need to hit the top and tie in with my climbing line. Unclipping the biner from the pulley and girthing the sling and clipping back seems to take a lot longer than using the limb above. On the average size pines around here the limbs are not heavy enough to do damage to the line. On hardwoods I usually have to pick three or four different locations to lower from. When speed lining, unless the line needs to be horizontal I will use biners instead of pulleys and the ground crew will use a bobcat or chipper winch to tighten the line up. Usually the brush or wood will touch the ground and stop before reaching the chipper so no need to slack the line with a friction break until it is time to reposition the speedline.
I might not be as advanced as some of the climbers here but I do know when to use a pulley and when to use a crotch. On some trees a pulley is better and some a natural crotch is better. This is part of a climber’s skills to know the difference. I wish my lowering lines did not get dirty or fuzzy but wear is part of the job. Lines have to be replaced and I know the use of pulleys will extend the time a line can be used.
I get so tired of reading posts quoting rope manufacturer’s bend ratios but at the same time say they use the friction of natural crotches for rigging. In one post they say something is bad for a rope and then in another post condone practices that are bad for rope. I guess I was venting and doing it in the wrong way.
I was a groundie for many years and I know how much better a pulley and port-a-wrap makes a job go as opposed to a crotch and a few wraps around the base of the tree. It is not easy for a groundie to talk seasoned climbers into new techniques but I did manage to get them to use a port-a-wrap and when needed a pulley or block. Even when I was only a groundie I realized that not every removal requires pulleys.
It does not take a rocket scientist to realize that on a removal that there is going to be a lot of roping from the same point that a natural crotch will get a groove in it that will cause increased friction and makes it hard to swing limbs out into the DZ or pull the line back up to the climber. Just judge the distance between the climber and pulley, tie a slip knot and yank the rope and it runs right up. Light pieces will usually not have enough weight to pull a 16 strand thru a natural crotch and the climber will have to feed the rope down. But, when using a pulley there is almost no friction so you have to use a port-a-wrap even on a small piece of wood or limb to keep it from running thru your gloves at a high rate.
I see a place for a pulley and a place for natural crotches. When doing pines and have to rope I will move the lowering line up as I go unless I need to hit the top and tie in with my climbing line. Unclipping the biner from the pulley and girthing the sling and clipping back seems to take a lot longer than using the limb above. On the average size pines around here the limbs are not heavy enough to do damage to the line. On hardwoods I usually have to pick three or four different locations to lower from. When speed lining, unless the line needs to be horizontal I will use biners instead of pulleys and the ground crew will use a bobcat or chipper winch to tighten the line up. Usually the brush or wood will touch the ground and stop before reaching the chipper so no need to slack the line with a friction break until it is time to reposition the speedline.
I might not be as advanced as some of the climbers here but I do know when to use a pulley and when to use a crotch. On some trees a pulley is better and some a natural crotch is better. This is part of a climber’s skills to know the difference. I wish my lowering lines did not get dirty or fuzzy but wear is part of the job. Lines have to be replaced and I know the use of pulleys will extend the time a line can be used.
I do not think anyone was trying to tell you what to do. I think we gave you the wrong impression. I hear ya,on posts reading data from a manufacturer that gets old fast. I do not use blocks / pulleys every time I need to lower a limb, but on most removals if I need to lower most of the tree I do. I spent many years removing trees in the traditional manner, I often think back on that and realize how much more difficult it was and most important how dangerous. I have also seem tools slow a climber down usually a beginer. I saw a guy once trying to use a throw ball in a 15' crab apple. he spent 20 minutes attempting to install a line. with a split tail and a lanyard you could be working in 5 minutes. Expereiance can be worth alot more than any book in this trade.
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