Handsaws vs chainsaws?

[MasterBlaster]

Yes, but it seems that efficiency, and ultimately, money are your main motivation. If that is the case, the chainsaw wins. Some are concerned about doing what's right for the tree.



Nick, since when did being efficient and making money automatically translate into improper tree care?
Up where you reside, perhaps? Not so down here, or at least if I have anything to do with it! Please do not judge my ability to properly trim a tree until you've seen for yourself. And from what I've observed, doing a crappy job does not help you get many other jobs, either.

 

[ORclimber]

IMO it is easier to use a handsaw and not damage surrounding branches while pruning. l prune with a handsaw and pole pruner, or pole saw. Lots of small cuts. Of course, that could change next week .

 

[rbtree]

I'm with Nick and Rich.

Heck, a sharp Silky will be faster than a power saw for most two inch cuts.

I hang the saw nearby a lot, or have it sent up for the final cuts.

Recently we crown cleaned the largest red oak in Seattle. I used my 335 for a few large cuts, but mostly used a 14 foot pole saw. I carried both it and the Zubat polesaw for one spreading section. A lot less fun maneuvering around with one or two poles saws than hanging a chain saw.

 

[ramanujan]

If you don't even notice that you've got a saw with you in the tree, either you're a sloth or you haven't spent enough time finding out how much easier it is to climb (dance, scamper) through a tree w/o a saw on your hip. I'd much rather spend an extra 50sec sawing those four 3" limbs with my handsaw than drag my saw around for an hour just to make the four cuts.

I love quiet pruning, no need for muffs or plugs.

Also working with handsaws allows safe cut 'n throw rhythm, easier to ensure that the brush goes out of the tree rather than nesting in the lower limbs.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Sort of related, but I used to do all my hedge work with hand shears.

I could zip out the side of a 150' hedge that was 9' tall in about 1/2 hour if it was not too thick.

The hand tools always made a nicer cut.

But then 10 years later, old me does most shearing with gas hedge shears. Not quite the same slice, but I gotta do what I gotta do to avoid the tendonitis in my forearms.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Allright! A lot of good responses with only one person resorting to name calling! Cool. I'm proud of you guys - nothing like a good discussion among peers. Thats how we all learn, and grow!

I actually used to work for a guy that didn't want his climbers to use a hand saw. He thought it kept them nit-picking the tree too much(reading this, Dave B?). I allways thought that was kinda nutty, but I HAVE seen climbers who dick around in the tree way too long.

As far as wearing out your joints and tendons, a handsaw will do that to me quicker than my 200 will. Its easier for me to let the chainsaw do the work.

A couple of you seem to equate speed/efficiency with improper pruning techniques. Where does that come from? Its quite possible to be quick, AND correct. And why wouldn't it? I dunno, maybe Louisiana trees are different, or something.

So whose working today? I have the pleasure of taking down a tree this morning DEEP in the heart of Rednecksville this morning. If the rain don't stop us, that is. I think we'll be able to work around the raindrops, knock on wood. And I think their supposed to feed us, also. Cool! I love down-home redneck cooking! A nice file gumbo will go good with this little cool front we've got passing through here today. I've got a little chicken-picken, beer-drinking appointment with some friends this afternoon. Good Times!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Dragging a chainsaw into a tree where it's not needed makes as much sense as dragging an 066 around for pruning.

Over use of a chainsaw leads to more bad cuts. This statement is made after observing tree work for thirty years. I include myself in the study. My work quality increased dramatically when I was enlightend about how much easier it is to use a handsaw. Leave the chainsaw for the big stuff.

MB claims to be able to do the same quality work when the temptation is to use the chainsaw. He would be a rule breaker. Not saying he can't though. Just find it unlikely.

Nick and I agree on the quality achieved with a combination of hand and chain saws. Each in the proper place. Most of the work I sell now requires a higher quality. The ONLY way to achieve that is with a handsaw since I work mostly in the outer third of the canopy.

When I sell jobs I need to justify my differences from other companies. By letting my client know that I make proper cuts and don't wound the tree they understand that they get a better value from my work. Most consumers don't know, or care, what tools we use. I give them a short talk about the importance of not nicking or missing the collar. I don't have any problem staying busy.

After spending time vacationing, and working, in Louisiana, I can't see that the trees there are any different than in other parts of the world. There are some specific species that are unique, but nothing extraordinary.

The only way to settle this would be to do a head to head job. Think of the TCC with some real pruning. I plan on introducing a pruning event to the next MN TCC. The climbers will be required to make several cuts and they will be judged and scored. There will pre cut brush on the ground. The climber will be allowed to use their choice of tools to demonstrate that they can make proper cuts. When we work out the bugs in this event I'm going to propose that it be included in the ITCC.

Tom

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Allright! A lot of good responses with only one person resorting to name calling!

I haven't responded yet.

You asked about chain saw use and proper pruning. Handsaws make better cuts.
One inch deadwood will not dull your saw. A sharp handsaw will cut wood up to 3", 4" or even 5" wood faster and/or better than a chainsaw. The switch point depends on the type of wood.
You can tie your saw on to your climbing rope before you go up, work the upper crown and tips, then pull up your chainsaw for the big stuff, without ever bothering your babysitter.
The obvious advantage to climbing without your chainsaw, besides it being easier, is that you can get around the small interior limbs without damaging them.
If you claim that it's just as easy to climb with your chainsaw, you sure as hell ain't working out at the tips, where you're supposed to be.
Having a good handsaw will make you a better climber. If you are cutting two inch limbs (dead or alive) on a trim job with a chainsaw, you need a new handsaw.

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by ramanujan
If you don't even notice that you've got a saw with you in the tree, either you're a sloth or you haven't spent enough time finding out how much easier it is to climb (dance, scamper) through a tree w/o a saw on your hip.

:blob5:

 

[rahtreelimbs]

The one thing that I don't think was mentioned was the less exposure to the chainsaw. A lot of pruning is in close quarters. Less exposure to the spinning chain is safer.

 

[MasterBlaster]

As usual, some people don't seem to read my words the way I write them. In re-reading my posts I try to see where I don't a'splain my position clearly, but I just don't seem to see it. I write the words the best I can; I'll try my best to improve if possible.

Tom, where did I say I climb only with my chainsaw? If I didn't have my handsaw at my side for a trim I would go home. I allways have a spare in my toolbox. And yes, Tom, I am guilty of making the world around me suit my needs. I don't care too much for it being the other way around, please feel free to interpet that any way you like.

KB, my style is to NOT dull my handsaw on deadwood WHENEVER I can. The little dead, I don't mind so much. The larger ones will taste my 200. And, SUPRISE! I CAN make good cuts with my chainsaw! Sure, I am guilty of the occasional miscut - who ain't? Oh, wait, I forgot! Ya'll never make a bad cut, do ya's?

And who says I can't get out to the tips? Ya'll are the biggest assumners I've ever read! My Marlboro dig-cam is on the way, I'll deal with this 'assumption' at that point. Lawdy! Jumping on my ability to do my job without even the FAINTEST IDEA AT ALL of whatever those abilities might be is mighty odd to me, indeed!

But thats allright, I know ya'll really love me! I love ya'll back, also.
Its ALL good! :angel:

 

[NeTree]

A SHARP chain that's not being forced will make a remarkably smooth pruning cut on stuff 1" and over.

 

[Koa Man]

Some here have mentioned Silky handsaws. Are they faster cutting than the ARS tri-edge or are they the same? If not, what is the difference and why are they superior? I may get one to try out if they cut faster than the ARS type saw teeth.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Koa,

We sliced and diced the merits of the various handsaws a while ago. Take a look through the archives for threads on Silky saws.

Short answer: Once you go Silky, you'll use your chainsaw less.

Tom

 

[Koa Man]

Thanks, I'll do a search on it.

 

[Joe]

Silky's stay sharp for a long time and the handles feel great in the hands. I love mine.

Joe

 

[Koa Man]

I just ordered one Zubat, one Ibuki and one Silky 300mm folding saw from Sherrill's. Figured I'll just try all three.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The Ibuki is not worth it, too agressive for the arc of the blade. The Zubat is the best blade out there.

Butch, I did not understand the concept untill i got a Zubat either. It really is faster and cleaner then anything else I've used. I used to hone my Fanno's twice a week, file every other week, and get a reset every other month. Now I just put on a new Zubat blade every 3-4 months.

 

[rbtree]

JPS, Thanks for the tip on the Ibuki.

I do like the straight blaced Natanoko, tho the handle is a bit floppy. It is better if you need to finish a topping cut and keep the hinge shape. And cuts very well. The blade is sturdier than the Zubat, which I do like the best. I have the Prosenthei, with two tooth patterns. It's great for ultra fine work, but is very fragile. The Hayauchi is one mean cutting pole saw blade!

I'd like to find someone local who could put a good edge on dull blades. Of course, the impulse hardening would no longer work. I've had Corona blades sharpened, but they don't hold an edge as long either, and the guy who did them didn't do a good enough job. But $5 each was cheap.

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Carrying your 200 in the tree constantly slows you down,its more weight and bulk, its still going to take you longer to purely travel through the tree than a person not carrying one.

I leave my 200 on the tail of my main line, if I need it, its there, otherwise with jobs such as the forementioned pin oak the 200 is like dragging a reluctant dog to the vet.

You cant get the quality of cut or finish with an chainsaw and your more likely to get badly hurt by one. The chainsaw has its place, but not in all trees.

Hey if I wanted to focus on pure production I would be a logger not an arborist. But I will race you around a pin oak anytime!