Hazardous Tree Removal TIP

[aktoyota]

Hey Guys,

Doing a tree for a good friend on saturday, freebie job. The tree in question is a 35' cherry. Right next to it (6' away) is another healthy cherry. The cherry in question is quite dead , bark falling off etc. My thoughts were to get a TIP in the good cherry and carefully chunk out the dead one. Any thoughts? I was planning on using spurs and a flip line on the dead cherry more fore positioning than carry me.

I guess what concerns me is if the dead cherry was to break or split i might still be tied in. Maybe im overthinking it.

I wondered if anyone ever tied in to the dead tree with a breakaway of some sort?

 

[Blakesmaster]

Hey Guys,

Doing a tree for a good friend on saturday, freebie job. The tree in question is a 35' cherry. Right next to it (6' away) is another healthy cherry. The cherry in question is quite dead , bark falling off etc. My thoughts were to get a TIP in the good cherry and carefully chunk out the dead one. Any thoughts? I was planning on using spurs and a flip line on the dead cherry more fore positioning than carry me.

I guess what concerns me is if the dead cherry was to break or split i might still be tied in. Maybe im overthinking it.

I wondered if anyone ever tied in to the dead tree with a breakaway of some sort?

When the tree I'm on is of questionable stability I won't hesitate to hang only from my TIP in a good tree and not use a lanyard in the bad one. I'll use the lanyard to get set but when I go to cut, I take it off. We all know how blasting a top out of the tree can load it up. Use your head, if you think it's safer to cut with one TIP, do it.

 

[pdqdl]

Two ideas here:

1. Make a small loop of prussic cord to join your lanyard to your belt where you would normally use a carabiner. Tie it on with a slip knot, that will let go if you yank on it.

I would recommend using a fairly light cord and making about 5 loops from your d-ring to the lanyard. Then the slip knot will not be heavily loaded, and you won't need to worry about being able to untie it in a hurry, nor will it be likely to just let you free-fall back to your TIP.

2. Make a rope lanyard that might be a little longer than you would normally use, rig it with an eye-to-eye prussic like always, but remove all stopper knots or anything that would keep you from holding the prussic and just letting the tree slip away from you.

 

[lego1970]

For me a lot would depend on the size of the trees. If the dead cherry is only 35' tall, is less then 15" diameter at base, the other tree is of same size or bigger, the swing won't be more then 8' then it wouldn't bother me to be bucked into the dead one, but if the dead tree is larger then the live tree, it's larger then 15" dia at base, the swing will be greater then 8', then no I would try to position myself so I could just stay/balance on the climbing line without being bucked into the dead tree. If concerned with only one TIP while using chainsaw, use tail or second rope and double tie into the good tree. If I couldn't balance off of just the climbing line, then I would buck in to the dead tree with just a slip knot as mentioned. Good luck.

 

[RacerX]

I once heard a guy say that he would use a breakaway chainsaw lanyard for a working the dead tree in this situation. I think that they break away at about 200#'s. I like the knot idea better.

 

[clearance]

I have tied into a good tree and swung into a dead one, made the undercut, then unclliped my lanyard and held it with one hand while I made the backcut with my other hand on my 020. Its wrong, I know.

 

[aktoyota]

Thanks for the advice. I didnt even think about the prussik with no stopper knot, I think Ill use my normal flip line with a piece of small accesorry cord tied to the prussik. It would act as a breakaway if things went wrong, knock on wood

 

[jomoco]

I've done a few very dead inaccessible trees that had iffy roots. And rather than put any lateral stress on them at all by tagging into a nearby healthy tree, I ran a bull line from the healthy to a ground anchor that went right over or through the dead tree. Then I'd attach a pulley to the bull line with a haul back on it so I could position the pulley dead center over or at the dead tree's main trunk with my bodyline through the pulley. Three ropes, bull line, haulback line, bodyline. This ensures that any lateral forces on the dead tree are greatly minimized, particularly if you piece the dead tree down in a balanced manner. And all this from just one tall healthy tree, even if it's some distance away from your targeted iffy tree.

jomoco

 

[treeclimber101]

Why not take the whole damn thing in one shot , use the live tree as a crane and do a tip tie , no muss no fuss , a thirty five footer will come down real nice like if done right .

 

[jomoco]

Why not take the whole damn thing in one shot , use the live tree as a crane and do a tip tie , no muss no fuss , a thirty five footer will come down real nice like if done right .

Damage to the live tree?

jomoco

 

[treeclimber101]

Damage to the live tree?

jomoco

No not if you use the right rigging , false crotch or pulley and use a few points the hardest thing is to get your ropes set right... We use a few points and a few ropes for control and not overloading any one point of either tree .. We have taken some large trees down like this and once you have done a few you will see how easy and SAFE it really is .. In fact we removed a pitch pine with a horrible lean the other day using two much smaller trees as cranes turned a three hr removal into a easy hr and a half..

 

[jomoco]

No not if you use the right rigging , false crotch or pulley and use a few points the hardest thing is to get your ropes set right... We use a few points and a few ropes for control and not overloading any one point of either tree .. We have taken some large trees down like this and once you have done a few you will see how easy and SAFE it really is .. In fact we removed a pitch pine with a horrible lean the other day using two much smaller trees as cranes turned a three hr removal into a easy hr and a half..

I can see it working out well with a few control lines and a few men on them.

Probably simpler and less time consuming than the method I outlined.

I guess it all depends on the situation and how punky the dead tree is.

jomoco

 

[treeclimber101]

I can see it working out well with a few control lines and a few men on them.

Probably simpler and less time consuming than the method I outlined.

I guess it all depends on the situation and how punky the dead tree is.

jomoco

You can cut removal time in most cases in half , and its safe often the climber can climb the healthy tree and do all the rope work from ther remember to set your lines high on the live tree this allows you to liberal with your dead tree and rope placement often you can set you lines at lower areas of the dead tree and still have good control ..I live and work in an area where we are constantly working on tall pines and poplar trees this method allows you to use one tree to remove another and often three or four if you set in the center, there are so many options when the tree is hanging there off the ground you can pull the the trunk sometimes halfway out of the yard before the tree ever touches the ground ..

 

[BlackenedTimber]

A few pics would be great, rather than speculating...

 

[tree md]

I once heard a guy say that he would use a breakaway chainsaw lanyard for a working the dead tree in this situation. I think that they break away at about 200#'s. I like the knot idea better.

That's what I have done in the past but only with a solid primary tie in in another tree... Come on, we're talking a 35 foot tree! Drop that puppy already!!!

 

[outofmytree]

I would use the healthy tree as a TIP provided that the rope angle and length were such that if the dead tree were to fail that you are able to readily absorb the shock of post swing impact without breaking bones.

On occasions where this type of tie in is necessary, like yesterday when removing a dead Cupressus sempervirens in a pristine garden, I use a rope lanyard for a second TIP. Either my 200t or zubat will cut through the lanyard rapidly allowing me to swing away.

Pictures would make this so much easier......

 

[treeslayer]

I have tied into a good tree and swung into a dead one, made the undercut, then unclliped my lanyard and held it with one hand while I made the backcut with my other hand on my 020. Its wrong, I know.

Not really. As long as the climbing line is free through the target tree, and the more we can do on the safe TIP, the better.
I do LOTS of really dead trees, and tying myself into a dead tree,
(with or without "slipknots" ) is always a matter of evaluation, every time.

dead trees can break ANYWHERE when even small shocks are passed through the tree.

And I always keep in my mind that I might have to sever a rope with the chainsaw after making a cut if the tree broke and took the rope down.

I saw this done once by a good climber, when a big dead red oak top blew out when overloaded, taking the climbing line with it. he simply cut his line away as it drew taut, He was on spikes with his lanyard tight.

But honestly, 35' ? rope the dead tree through the live cherry and cut from the bottom, lowering the top down.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally Posted by clearance
I have tied into a good tree and swung into a dead one, made the undercut, then unclliped my lanyard and held it with one hand while I made the backcut with my other hand on my 020. Its wrong, I know.

I have always liked the old ANSI lime where it allowed the climber to onehand "when authorized by supervisor" as being the only safe way to manage the situation.

But then this is not another ANSI debate... :deadhorse:

 

[treeslayer]

I have always liked the old ANSI lime where it allowed the climber to onehand "when authorized by supervisor" as being the only safe way to manage the situation.

But then this is not another ANSI debate... :deadhorse:

I just wanna see your big arse in a 35' tree.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I just wanna see your big arse in a 35' tree.

That was last Saturday, Monday i was trimming some ~90 ft red oaks.