Hearing protection

[Big feller]

I just posted a reply to a thread here after seeing a video that looked as if the saw op wasn't wearing hearing protection. (Big apologies if he was wearing plugs, buteven if so, they don't work as well as Peltors. Anyway, it got me thinking)

Sorry if it has been covered before, but after thinking for a while I thought it deserves its own thread. Sorry if it's dull, but please persevere - I'll get there pretty soon.

Here in the UK the noise rules for the broadcast industry used to be that noises up to 105dBA were allowed without hearing protection, and 115 with (Supposed absolute maximum).

Since then a lot of research has been done and until recently the rules were changed to a daily dose. The scary bit is that the time halves for every increase of 3dBA:

85dBA for 8 hours (All these figures with no protection)
88 for 4 hours
91 for 2 hours
94 for 1 hour
97 for 30 mins
100 for 15 mins
103 for 7.5 mins
106 for 3 mins 15 secs.

A chainsaw might well be in the region of 106 - probably more if you have modded the muffler.

The good news is that the Peltor ear defenders give about 20dBA attenuation. Hurrah! We can now work for 8 hours!

OK - but you do a couple of sessions of 2 mins a piece where you don't bother with your hat - or you take your defenders off to shout to someone - and you have doubled your dose for the day. Also, those ears need to be a snug fit with a tight headband. Wear glasses underneath and take off at least 10 dB - You are down to an eighth of the time.


Back to modding the muffler. My guess is that a standard mod. might make it louder by 6 to 10dBA. That could cut your working day by more than a quarter. Fine for play, but really bad news for a professional. This explains the laws in California to which Lakeside recently alluded which involve unpleasant things happening to those who modify.

My guess as to SPLs for saws may be off the mark, but the dose levels are about right. Anyone with a saw and a sound meter like to offer real live figures?

 

[computeruser]

Interesting post! As for the sound meter, I've been wanting to buy one of those for a long time. Good ones cost a grip, though, so it has never happened just like the handheld CO meter that seemed like a great idea until I figured out what a good one would cost.

Now here's a puzzler for everyone: what about if you have the little radio in your muffs turned up so you can hear it over the saw. Hmmm...

 

[Four Paws]

I just posted a reply to a thread here after seeing a video that looked as if the saw op wasn't wearing hearing protection. (Big apologies if he was wearing plugs, buteven if so, they don't work as well as Peltors. Anyway, it got me thinking)

First off, NO ear muff will surpass the best ear plug for noise attenuation. Peltor noise attenuation data can be found HERE

If you would like to see how to calculate NRR, check out this LINK

Personally, I wear earplugs with a NRR of 29, and then use the muffs on my helmet over top.

Here in the UK the noise rules for the broadcast industry used to be that noises up to 105dBA were allowed without hearing protection, and 115 with (Supposed absolute maximum).

Since then a lot of research has been done...

The research you speak of was performed by OSHA - and many other nations adopted their regulations.

My guess as to SPLs for saws may be off the mark, but the dose levels are about right. Anyone with a saw and a sound meter like to offer real live figures?

Many manufacturers publish this data - check their websites.

What is your intent here, to make us all aware that prolonged exposure to loud noises can cause hearing loss? I wear ear plugs because I want to hear in 20 years. If the guy in the video wasn't wearing earplugs that was HIS choice!

 

[sanleonscott]

What???

I Can't Hear You

 

[Sprig]

Interesting post! As for the sound meter, I've been wanting to buy one of those for a long time. Good ones cost a grip, though, so it has never happened just like the handheld CO meter that seemed like a great idea until I figured out what a good one would cost.

Now here's a puzzler for everyone: what about if you have the little radio in your muffs turned up so you can hear it over the saw. Hmmm...

Double trouble, the noises do NOT cancel out. Muffs give some protection for some mid-high frequencies, but best to use both plugs (I believe most max at 30k htz) and muffs. I speak from experience and have many friends with ear damage. The biggest culprit is high frequency and db's. The damage, much to people's other thoughts on it, will take out your mid-range hearing first, somewhere down the road, and its a slow takedown so not always apparent at first. It goes downhill from there, not a good thing imo and as important as eyes imo. For some reason people tend to think that high frequency exposure affects the high range of hearing. As far as I know it just ain't so. The damage to the ear will affect it in such a way that ALL sound is affected.
I'd like to see someone come up with some nice comfy muffs that are 1> cheap (per se) and 2> cover 5k-40k Htz 3> be good in the 80-120db range.
Then with something decent like that you could have your music and enjoy your hearing too. Though there are some really good protectors out there they tend to be pricey, and considering how cheap the materials are it sortta pizzes me off.
What I have done with several pairs of muffs is add a layer of denser foam (those blue cheap-o knee pads for example) to add to their sound resistance. Has seemed to work well, my hearing is still good after much loud machine usage and 10yrs in a mill @ 100db+.
My el-cheap-o 0.02$ worth fer da evening.
Guard your ears boys, even for the short times, really, nice ta hear the birds sing and your kid's call.

 

[treeclimber jul]

Anyone know about the noise canceling muffs?

 

[outdoortype]

I don't wear hearing protection because I'm afraid I won't hear my buddy yelling if there's trouble like bees or a tree starting to fall. I wonder if the knit cap pulled over my ears dampens the noise enough to prevent some damage?

Now here's a puzzler for everyone: what about if you have the little radio in your muffs turned up so you can hear it over the saw. Hmmm...

No offense, but that would defeat the purpose. Part of the fun of wood cutting is hearing the sound of the two stroke, even if it's damped a little with ear plugs.

 

[Cedarkerf]

I use plugs for chainsaws have ran them for thousands of hours. I work in the airline business have been exposed to riveting in confined aluminum area, been exposed to high power engine runs supposedly in the 150 decibel range six minutes continuous for these plugs and muffs. I have annual mandatory hearing test and still have good hearing after 12 years. Just be religious about using plugs and muffs and don't be to worried. Also shoot hand guns and large magnum rifles. I do know guys who have bad hearing now but they think they are tough enough to blow off hearing protection. They are easy to figure out because the complain about every one mumbles.

 

[Sprig]

I don't wear hearing protection because I'm afraid I won't hear my buddy yelling if there's trouble like bees or a tree starting to fall. I wonder if the knit cap pulled over my ears dampens the noise enough to prevent some damage?

No offense, but that would defeat the purpose. Part of the fun of wood cutting is hearing the sound of the two stroke, even if it's damped a little with ear plugs.

No, your knit cap just looks funky
We speak (or yell, not high pitched girly screamin' tho lol) at fairly low frequencies. These are not the ones that do the most damage and most ear protection won't block that as far as I know. Learning to whistle without your fingers is a very good skill and I think those little pump-up boat horns are the cat's meaow if you want to get someone's attention (and they are really cheap, and small, and light, and cheap, did I say cheap already?).

 

[Big feller]

First off, NO ear muff will surpass the best ear plug for noise attenuation. Peltor noise attenuation data can be found HERE

If you would like to see how to calculate NRR, check out this LINK

Personally, I wear earplugs with a NRR of 29, and then use the muffs on my helmet over top.



The research you speak of was performed by OSHA - and many other nations adopted their regulations.



Many manufacturers publish this data - check their websites.

What is your intent here, to make us all aware that prolonged exposure to loud noises can cause hearing loss? I wear ear plugs because I want to hear in 20 years. If the guy in the video wasn't wearing earplugs that was HIS choice!

Hey Paws - That's a pretty severe flaming for what was an honest attempt to help people. Thanks for the link to the calculations, though.

I think you might have missed something when you compare earmuffs and earplugs. Plugs only attenuate air pressure into the ear canal. Muffs also offer protection to the bones around the ear which transmit damaging vibrations. However I can't fault you for wearing both. That's got to be ideal.

As to my motivation in posting - I've partially answered that. There are a lot of folks who are genuinely surprised about the significance of the time element with hearing protection. In my example that was 3 mins 15 seconds without protection being equivalent to 8 hours with.

I reckon if people know a bit more about the whys and wherefores of PPE they are more likely to use it.

 

[oldsaw]

I've got silicone plugs that work really well, and nice muffs. When bucking, I tend to use one or the other, and when I'm milling, I use both due to duration.

Although my hearing is still pretty good, I wish it was better. Something to do with youth and invincibility...:rockn: Then had an infection in my left ear a couple of years ago, and I've got some permanent loss there.

Mark

 

[Big feller]

Interesting post! As for the sound meter, I've been wanting to buy one of those for a long time. Good ones cost a grip, though, so it has never happened just like the handheld CO meter that seemed like a great idea until I figured out what a good one would cost.

Now here's a puzzler for everyone: what about if you have the little radio in your muffs turned up so you can hear it over the saw. Hmmm...

I too thought that cheap SPL meters would be no good. We then bought a load so that we could have one on each of our mobiles. I checked them against a top-flight meter and was surprised just how good they were. Cheap ones were about $30 and the professional unit with calibrator etc. about $500. I hate cheap tools normally, but these seem OK.

As to the radio, that's not such a daft idea as it seems if it is designed in. There are some well respected manufacturers of hearing protection who make them, although they are probably suited to slightly lower levels of noise.
If you have a background of 80dBA and turn up a radio, you may well end up with SPL of 90. Put on muffs and 80 drops to 60. Add built-in radio and you get to 70 - well within limits. If background is above 90 (as it will be with a saw running) you probably don't want to go there.

 

[Ed*L]

I always wear muffs or plugs. No excuses. I'm 42 years old and still have pretty good hearing. I plan on keeping it.
A couple of friends I cut with never wear hearing protection, I don't see how they can stand the noise. Even my 084 won't make them put ear muffs/plugs on. It's just stupid.

Ed

 

[troutfisher]

Modded saws drown out nagging wives- let'r rip!

 

[B_Turner]

I always use good foam earplugs (Moldex 6800, around 31 NRR) and Peltor 10 series earmuffs (27-30 NRR depending on the mounting style). Far less tiring for me over the course of a day.

 

[zemmo]

If I'm just making a few cuts, I usually just wear my Peltors, but if I'm going to be running the saw for an extended period I wear plugs under the muffs. I have used 20 or more different plugs and half a dozen muffs, and the attenuation varies a LOT between brands and models.

I lost a lot of my hearing when I was a kid, shooting magnum pistols w/o any protection whatsoever. Losing one's hearing really ain't a lot of fun, most birds are inaudible to me unless they're VERY close or loud. Female consonants, in particular, get up into my frequency range of max loss, and I have trouble understanding.

Once it's gone it ain't coming back. I urge everyone to wear hearing pro EVERY time they're exposed to harmful noise.

 

[bama]

I use plugs and muffs when cutting and splitting. I also have musician ear plugs(25db--but you can still hear) which work well for hunting. It doesn't take many rounds from a 30-06 to make you DEEEF. Saws didn't take my hearing. I lost most of my hearing directing bands(OK maybe some hearing loss when I was a crazy teenager, too).

It is hard to be this young and have to start looking at hearing aids. But, I sure do get tired of asking people to speak up and look at me when they talk.

Worst thing ever invented was the little numbers on the TV that show you how loud it is. I hate being reminded that I need it set at 35 when everyone else is ok at 20!

 

[GASoline71]

My hearing is already shot from 10 years on an aircraft carrier flight deck. That was with double protection (plugs & attenuators). So I tend to not wear 'em much while sawin'. Prolly should... but I don't.:bang:

Gary

 

[zemmo]

My hearing is already shot from 10 years on an aircraft carrier flight deck. That was with double protection (plugs & attenuators). So I tend to not wear 'em much while sawin'. Prolly should... but I don't.:bang:

Gary

However bad it is, it can get worse, until you're absolutely deaf. Trust me on this one...

 

[ray benson]

Hearing loss is cummulative- everyone should wear plugs or muffs when around loud machines.