Help with cabling...

[logantree]

I've got a customer wanting me to try to save a very large white oak for as long as possible. They're talking about me cabling it, but I've never done any before. They said they would be glad for me to learn on this tree, so I'm looking for some help now. I have a few questions to get things started...

Is this tree a good candidate for cabling? I mean I know the tree is in pretty bad shape, but in it's location it looks to me like it would be worth saving a few more years.

And if it's cabled, how much longer are we talking? (I know you can't answer that question exactly, I just want to know if it's worth putting the money in.)

Does it need more than one cable?

What's the best cable to use? Is cobra better?

Some tips on where exactly to install would be much appreciated.

I've attached a few images below. I hope they are good enough to be helpful.

Thanks

 

[tomtrees58]

may be 2 cables and rod work tom trees

 

[Dadatwins]

Looks like a major split, some rods would be needed and steel cable on something that size. The big problem with cabling a tree that big is the cable material is usually relatively cheap but the tools to do it, gas drill, 5' drill bit can cost more than the job. Get rid of the poison ivy on that thing before starting anything.

 

[logantree]

Looks like a major split, some rods would be needed and steel cable on something that size. The big problem with cabling a tree that big is the cable material is usually relatively cheap but the tools to do it, gas drill, 5' drill bit can cost more than the job. Get rid of the poison ivy on that thing before starting anything.

How many steel rods are needed? And should I use lag-thread or coarse-thread? And can you give me an idea as to where to install them? (Sorry if I'm being a complete idiot, but as I said I've never done any support systems before.) Any tips on the actual cabling? I.E. What size cable? Threaded rod or eye bolt? Should I use turn buckles?

Again, sorry for being such an ignoramus.

Thanks again.

 

[kennertree]

Buy the bmp (best management practices) on tree support systems. It's only 7 or 8 dollars. You can get it through the ISA or the sherrill website. It will give you alot of info on the matierals and installation. Get that truck out of the root zone and get rid of that turf and mulch to the dripline while you're at it.

 

[tomtrees58]

a tree like that 2 rods and extra high strenth cable 5/8 eye bolts you can drill them with a dewalt 18 v drill we do it all the time tom trees

 

[wiltzzy]

Listen to kenertree, maybe plant a few replacements and put in a non static system that will prevent major failure while allowing for some movement and tissue building.
artistree

 

[md_tree_dood]

We use dewalt 18V's also, that's not the issue, the issue is the drill bit costs a small fortune. You'll also need a good set of bolt cutters to cut the EHS cable. If you want to put a through rod in, you'll need a different, much bigger bit for the through rod.

Like someone said, you really need to get the BMP on support systems before you dive into this. I do on average 10-15 cables a week in the summer and you'll learn that its a great add on when doing pruning because you're already in the tree and the advantages are well worth it, not only in saving the tree but saving property.

Please please look into EHS cable and eye bolts with quickwraps. It's the easiest system to install and has the fewest parts, no need for a come along, or wire cutters, and other nonsense.

 

[tomtrees58]

we had a bit maid 5/8 and yes big$$ trim the tree first then cable it or you will have loose cables tom trees

 

[treeseer]

Bit is $119: http://www.sherrilltree.com/s.nl/it.A/id.351/.f

to cut EHS hacksaw does a good job; not that hard.

Looks like 2 rods will do it if <20"; no cable needed.

BMP's on brace # seem like overkill on larger trees imo.

Better safe, I guess.

Apparently a good candidate to save, though the interesting view for a pic would be looking straight down into that crack.:jawdrop:

 

[pdqdl]

...

Please please look into EHS cable and eye bolts with quickwraps. It's the easiest system to install and has the fewest parts, no need for a come along, or wire cutters, and other nonsense.

I beg to differ! If using EHS, how are you going to cut the right length without wire cutter of some sort?

Cable & eyebolts with quick wraps take the MOST parts to install.

For each attachment you need: bolt (with nut & washer), thimble, and quickwrap. (You could just screw in a lag eye bolt, but that is not as secure.)

Using the Rigguy equipment, you only need one wirestop assembly (two parts, one price). This is not traditional cabling equipment, so there is controversy about it's use. I like the Rigguy equipment, but it's not for everyone. There is no argument about one thing: this is the most invisible method of installing cable in a tree. (I say that now, but somebody will.)

 

[kennertree]

+1 on rigguys. In my opinion they are the easiest to install and cheaper too.

 

[logantree]

Thanks for all the information so far. I've got the BMP on order, should have it tomorrow.

I was planning on doing a crown cleaning before cabling, but is a crown reduction and/or crown thinning necessary? The customer didn't ask for any kind of trimming, but would it be a good idea to lessen the stress on the split?

Thanks again.

 

[treeseer]

I've got the BMP on order, should have it tomorrow.

Great; once the trunk measurements are known, compliance can be strategized.

I was planning on doing a crown cleaning before cabling, but is a crown reduction and/or crown thinning necessary?

That tree's crown looks pretty open. no pruning beyond cleaning seems to be needed.

 

[md_tree_dood]

Rigguy needs a tension system to install, ehs with throughbolts doesn't. Time is money.

 

[logantree]

Rigguy needs a tension system to install, ehs with throughbolts doesn't. Time is money.

And by tension system you mean a winch to pull the forks together while installing? I do like the way those Rigguys look.

 

[pdqdl]

Rigguy needs a tension system to install, ehs with throughbolts doesn't. Time is money.

No! Rigguys does NOT need tension to hold. They are secured by one bent wire that passes through the holding cone.

Their installation video shows the system being installed with a come-along to tension the wire, which some folks do with every cable they install. Some do, some don't.

 

[B-Edwards]

You are going to need to pull it together a little better imo before you tighten the rods up. I havent do much cabling but have used a Cobra on smaller trees alot in the past 8 years. Some like it, some dont. The size of the tree dictates what you need to do or use. You have got some good advise so far I would study up a little and try to remember some basic things for the positioning of your rigging. I have told a few customers that they needed cabling only to come back around a few months later and see it was done with log-chains or cables wrapped around the trunk by someone who obviously had no clue what they were doing. I always get a good laugh when I see crap like that and try to learn what I can so I dont make the same foolish mistake when I try and save a penny on something I have no experience with.

 

[md_tree_dood]

No! Rigguys does NOT need tension to hold. They are secured by one bent wire that passes through the holding cone.

Their installation video shows the system being installed with a come-along to tension the wire, which some folks do with every cable they install. Some do, some don't.

So what you're saying is you need a tension system. You can tension the cable to the correct amount using the nuts on the through bolts without any tensioning system with the EHS cable. I have NEVER had to use a tensioning system with the EHS system, if you EVER have to use a tension system with rigguy then its already too complicated in my book.

As far as how things look. When a tree is in full leaf, you most likely won't be able to see any system thats installed in a tree, although the cobra system sticks out like a sore thumb in the winter, but even it is hidden in the summer. Also, once you start doing big trees, you're not going to be able to see the stopper nut on the rigguy or the bolt, nut, and washer on a through bolt. Hell I've had customers call me back to jobs because they thought we didn't install the cables because they couldn't see them.

PDQDL and I don't agree on cabling systems, other threads have proven this. I can tell you that I do a ton of cabling, and the EHS system with throughbolts and quickwraps works for me. Either way, every cabling system has its 'fanboys' go with whatever system is easiest for you to install and makes you the money that you want to make.

 

[treeseer]

The amount of tension needed is not a matter of materials, but of the amount of movement is best for the tree. Most cables I've installed needed some tensioning to be optimally effective.

TreeMachine uses petzls to get a 3 to 1 mech advantage, which tensioned a 20'+ span in a sycamore just fine using rigguy wirestops last week. lots easier than cranking that comealong.