Help with cabling...

[logantree]

Thanks for all the helpful info so far...Keep it coming if you've got it.
What would you charge for this job? I'm just curios because I've never done one before. I told the costumer I would have to charge them for all the materials including the tools I need because I have none of them and can't afford to buy them right now. This is the first request for cabling/bracing I've had in the last three years. Not a very high demand for it in this area. I'm still trying to come up with a figure to tell them, but it looks like it might be around $1200 - $1800. Is that way too much or not enough?

Thanks again.

 

[md_tree_dood]

$69 for 250 ft of 1/4" EHS Cable
$40 for 10 Quickwraps at $4.00 a piece
$3.50 for 10 Heavy Duty thimbles at .35 a piece
$100 for 10 12" Eye-bolts at $10 a piece
$5 for 10 washers at .50 a washer

total= 217.50/5 = 43.50 per cable

That would make 5 cables and each would be 50 ft long, which is way longer than they are going to be but it was easy to calculate cost. You'll have lots of extra cable and you'll have to figure out how much extra hardware you want to buy.

Can't find the bit you'd need on Sherrill's website, its probably there but you'd need to calculate that price in. You'll need a hacksaw to finish off the bolt, a hammer to peen over the end of the bolt that you just hacksawed, and bolt cutters to cut the cable on the ground and to length in the tree.

Calculate the price of tools and assume, then figure you're going to take forever to do the work since you haven't done it before and I'd say you be at around 300 a cable.

Assuming you're going to do bracerods, which I think could be useful but now you've got even more hardware to buy and a ridiculously expensive drill bit (about $200) I'd say the bracerod is gonna be about $500.

So there you go. Can't see the picture, as I'm trying to post, but if you put in 3 cables and the rod, you're at $1400. I can't see as you should transfer all of the cost of the tools to the homeowner as you'll be able to use them on other jobs. I could see a part of the cost, but all of it seems excessive.

As a good salesman friend of mine once said "Sales is all about screwing people as long as you can as hard as you can until they figure it out. Then you never work for them again."

Depending on how you feel about the above statement, you can make up your mind on price.

 

[randyg]

$69 for 250 ft of 1/4" EHS Cable
$40 for 10 Quickwraps at $4.00 a piece
$3.50 for 10 Heavy Duty thimbles at .35 a piece
$100 for 10 12" Eye-bolts at $10 a piece
$5 for 10 washers at .50 a washer

total= 217.50/5 = 43.50 per cable

That would make 5 cables and each would be 50 ft long, which is way longer than they are going to be but it was easy to calculate cost. You'll have lots of extra cable and you'll have to figure out how much extra hardware you want to buy.

Can't find the bit you'd need on Sherrill's website, its probably there but you'd need to calculate that price in. You'll need a hacksaw to finish off the bolt, a hammer to peen over the end of the bolt that you just hacksawed, and bolt cutters to cut the cable on the ground and to length in the tree.

Calculate the price of tools and assume, then figure you're going to take forever to do the work since you haven't done it before and I'd say you be at around 300 a cable.

Assuming you're going to do bracerods, which I think could be useful but now you've got even more hardware to buy and a ridiculously expensive drill bit (about $200) I'd say the bracerod is gonna be about $500.

So there you go. Can't see the picture, as I'm trying to post, but if you put in 3 cables and the rod, you're at $1400. I can't see as you should transfer all of the cost of the tools to the homeowner as you'll be able to use them on other jobs. I could see a part of the cost, but all of it seems excessive.

As a good salesman friend of mine once said "Sales is all about screwing people as long as you can as hard as you can until they figure it out. Then you never work for them again."

Depending on how you feel about the above statement, you can make up your mind on price.

What about THE NUTS?????

 

[andosca]

i'd recomend a very small cable .....like the one that you pull to start a 90cc class saw. i mean after you get done lightening up the top and installing and pulling and tightening you've got this poor tree on life support. what kind of quality of life is that? plant some new trees, thats what i'd tell them anyway.

 

[southsoundtree]

In addition to your labor & climbing equipment wear and tear & and vehicle, and business expenses, insurance, etc., remember tax, shipping, the drill, and your mark-up, unless the homeowner wants to buy them and have them for you...which I don't recommend. Not a huge mark-up, but you are putting up money up front to buy, and your time for ordering, etc.

 

[Mapleman]

A good benchmark on crown thinning is to be able to see 25% daylight through the canopy when the tree is fully leafed. I would use 3/8" heavy duty cable with 5/8" eyebolts and dead-end grips with thimbles. One cable 2/3's of the way up from the crotch. If the crotch is really included with bark or if there's a cavity with rot, you may want a threaded rod, but that looks like a big boring job. You'll need to weld an extension onto your bit. The bracing could get pricey, both for time and materials. If you decide to brace it, hanging there and trying to drill through that thing could be painful. It will also be hard to center your bit so it comes out square on the farther side. Two cables--one high and one low--might be a better option.

 

[treeseer]

A good benchmark on crown thinning is to be able to see 25% daylight through the canopy when the tree is fully leafed.

That is a brand new one on me--seems it would depend on species, age, etc.

If you decide to brace it, hanging there and trying to drill through that thing could be painful. It will also be hard to center your bit so it comes out square on the farther side. Two cables--one high and one low--might be a better option.

Despite the difficulty, bracing is the best option. If you cable only, the crack can still grow when the tree twists. Drilling can be done from ladder and tied in for stability.

Bits last a lifetime.

 

[Mapleman]

That is a brand new one on me--seems it would depend on species, age, etc. (Quote)

The 25% calculation is a general rule, applicable to healthy trees. Of course it depends on individual circumstances as you said. I mention it to clients as a preventative measure to take the sail out of the canopy and minimize wind damage.

Despite the difficulty, bracing is the best option. If you cable only, the crack can still grow when the tree twists. Drilling can be done from ladder and tied in for stability. Bits last a lifetime.[/QUOTE]

I agree, a brace is a better option, all things considered. But if you haven't done one before, that tree might not be the one to learn on. A really tight secondary cable ten feet up from the crotch would be easier to place. Then the higher cable set a little looser could be installed. I've had good luck using that system. Working off a ladder, drilling into five feet of oak, and trying to center your bore is tricky for professionals and a severe challenge for first timers.

If you decide to go that route, make sure your drill has a reverse and you clean out the bore by periodically reversing the bit out of the hole, or else the saw dust is going to jam the bit. When that happens, you'll need a pair of vice grips and a gorilla to get the bit out, especially in hard wood.

 

[logantree]

I am planning on bracing, but I'm going to rent a 60 ft. lift. I've been talking to Tom Duffy with Sherrill Tree too, and he gave me some more tips on bracing and such. I'm pretty excited about it...I'm going to try and get a bunch of pictures of the job, so I'll post a few after I'm done. It's going to be some time next week before I do it though.

Thanks again for everybody's help.

 

[treeseer]

I hope Tom talked you into buying the BMP's. $10 buys you a lot of direction.

Maple what you propose seems reasonable too. BMP also means Best Means Possible. :agree2:

 

[logantree]

I bought the BMPs on Monday after one of you mentioned it. They were very helpful.

 

[Mapleman]

Yeah treeseer,

There's more than one way to skin a cat, or a tree. It really gets me when guys think there's only one way to do a job. A local guy around where I live once told me there was nothing else about tree work he needed to learn because he knew all he needed to know. When we stop wanting to learn, it's time to hang up our saddle and spurs...

 

[brnchbrkr]

Cabling

http://www.treecareindustry.org/public/gov_standards_a300.htm

Got it.

Thanks to all.