Help with some basic knot and roap application

[fields_mj]

Probably going to get flamed for this, but I've got some questions and figured this was as good a place as any to start asking them.

First of all, I'm not an arborist. I do cut my own firwood, but that's about it. My questions are about a safetly application for deer hunting out of a tree stand, or maybe more accuratly about climbing up and down the tree via climbing sticks.

I'm just now getting around to buying the safety gear that I need in order to not fall out of a tree. I've been hunting out of stands for over 20 years, but we always built our own, and they were big enough that you could easily take a nap in them. Well, now that I'm buying hang on/lock on stands that are a lot more portable, I'm also buying the harnes and straps to keep me in them. One of my bigger concerns is going up a set of possibly wet or even icy sticks in the dark and then trying to safely step over into the stand. They make and sell some "life lines" that are essentially a rope that ties off to the tree above the stand with a Prusik knot and a carabiner. You attach the prusik knot to your harnes via the carabiner. As you go up/down the tree, you take the prusik knot with you. Once you get in the stand, you attach your lanyard to the tree strap and then you can safely disconnect from the life line. Now, my problem with this is that it costs $40~$60 and I would need one for each stand and I simply don't have it in the budget to get one of these for each of my stands right now. It would apper that the life line is simply a 30' climbing rope (camo of course) with a figure 8, or maybe a double figure 8 tied in one end, and probably some kind of stopper knot on the other end. It looks like it attaches to the tree by looping everything, including the prusik knot through the loop of the figure 8, and then some how that is kept cinched against the tree. I'm not sure what the bottom attaches too, but I would think that it would need to attach to something so that the prusik knot can be slid up with one hand.

Anyway, my question is this. Is it reasonable to think that I could purchase some climbing rope (black) and some rope to make the Prusik knot with, and do this for one heck of a lot less or does $50 sound about right for 30ft of climbing rope and a foot or two of what ever is needed for the prusik? I already have 2 or 3 extra carabiners that came with safety harnesses that were included with the stands. I would only need one of those, and it could stay with me/harness. If this is a reasonable alternative, what rope would you recommend for each part (main line, prusik), and where would be a good place to get it? Is there a better knot to use to attach the rope at the top? Also, how good is this kind of set up going to work in the rain, freezing rain, snow? Would it be a good idea to keep an extra loop with me that way I could tie on a dry prusik when needed? Would a dry prusik knot still be able to grab the main line and stop me if the main line was wet, or even frozen?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[jefflovstrom]

opcorn:
Jeff

 

[Carburetorless]

You could use the one rope for all your stands, just buy some throw line(about $15 for 200ft, throw weight included), and set it in each tree, then use it to pull your rope over a branch, tie a running bowline, tie the throw line to the bowline before you cinch it up to the branch so you can retrieve it when you climb down.

Set the throwlines in the daytime when you hang your stands of course.

When you get ready to move, climb down, pull the throwline to retrieve your rope, undo the loop, pull the rope back over the branch with the throwline attached, and leave the throw line in the tree, move to your next stand, tie your rope to one end of the throwline, and pull it across the branch, tie your running bowline, and cinch it up to the branch with the throwline attached. Repeat every time you move to a different stand.

1 rope, multiple throwline set/retrieval systems. Learn to climb the rope and you won't need any steps/sticks whatever you call them.

 

[fields_mj]

Yeah, but I've trimmed the limbs out of the way for shooting lanes. I like the climbing the rope thing. Just not so sure that it would work well when it's well below freezing. That and I would need to loose another 30 lbs.... lol

 

[tramp bushler]

Yes, a prusik will work well when wet. You need at least 4' to make a prusik loop. And that will only have 1+1/2' of reach approximately. Tecknora is only 38 cents a foot last time I checked but its yellow color.
Not flaming but Rope is spelled r o p e .

Just make SURE you tie the knots and hitches correctly. Your life may depend on them.

 

[Carburetorless]

Yeah, but I've trimmed the limbs out of the way for shooting lanes. I like the climbing the rope thing. Just not so sure that it would work well when it's well below freezing. That and I would need to loose another 30 lbs.... lol

Unless you're planning on shooting Santyclaus out the sky, the limbs above you should still be in tact. So just tie in to one of those, but if you're that fat then you shouldn't be out in the woods during hunting season, because someone might mistake you for a bear and shoot you in your ass.

 

[treemandan]

opcorn:
Jeff

20 years of half assing it and the guy wants safety gear now? Dam dude, just down another slug of Yager, lock and load then climb the Hell up there and shoot something allready, yer killing me.

But really... I have a friend ( I know, I can't beleive it either) who maintains tree stands for hunters, man, you think tree work stories are funny you ought to hear what this guy says about these crazy hunters and what they will do to get up to that stand... well I say rotten ass board nailed to a tree. Anyway, he makes a buck or two hooking up these things so I guess that's good.

 

[treemandan]

Why don't you just haul a Lazyboy up there with the quadrunner? That's what i would do.

 

[treemandan]

Probably going to get flamed for this, but I've got some questions and figured this was as good a place as any to start asking them.

First of all, I'm not an arborist. I do cut my own firwood, but that's about it. My questions are about a safetly application for deer hunting out of a tree stand, or maybe more accuratly about climbing up and down the tree via climbing sticks.

I'm just now getting around to buying the safety gear that I need in order to not fall out of a tree. I've been hunting out of stands for over 20 years, but we always built our own, and they were big enough that you could easily take a nap in them. Well, now that I'm buying hang on/lock on stands that are a lot more portable, I'm also buying the harnes and straps to keep me in them. One of my bigger concerns is going up a set of possibly wet or even icy sticks in the dark and then trying to safely step over into the stand. They make and sell some "life lines" that are essentially a rope that ties off to the tree above the stand with a Prusik knot and a carabiner. You attach the prusik knot to your harnes via the carabiner. As you go up/down the tree, you take the prusik knot with you. Once you get in the stand, you attach your lanyard to the tree strap and then you can safely disconnect from the life line. Now, my problem with this is that it costs $40~$60 and I would need one for each stand and I simply don't have it in the budget to get one of these for each of my stands right now. It would apper that the life line is simply a 30' climbing rope (camo of course) with a figure 8, or maybe a double figure 8 tied in one end, and probably some kind of stopper knot on the other end. It looks like it attaches to the tree by looping everything, including the prusik knot through the loop of the figure 8, and then some how that is kept cinched against the tree. I'm not sure what the bottom attaches too, but I would think that it would need to attach to something so that the prusik knot can be slid up with one hand.

Anyway, my question is this. Is it reasonable to think that I could purchase some climbing rope (black) and some rope to make the Prusik knot with, and do this for one heck of a lot less or does $50 sound about right for 30ft of climbing rope and a foot or two of what ever is needed for the prusik? I already have 2 or 3 extra carabiners that came with safety harnesses that were included with the stands. I would only need one of those, and it could stay with me/harness. If this is a reasonable alternative, what rope would you recommend for each part (main line, prusik), and where would be a good place to get it? Is there a better knot to use to attach the rope at the top? Also, how good is this kind of set up going to work in the rain, freezing rain, snow? Would it be a good idea to keep an extra loop with me that way I could tie on a dry prusik when needed? Would a dry prusik knot still be able to grab the main line and stop me if the main line was wet, or even frozen?

Thanks,
Mark

How do you usually get up there anyway? For us it a big hassle and a bunch of expensive gear. If you are just looking for something to keep your drunk, frozen ass from falling of your rickety tree stand I suggest a mountain harness and a section of static line.

 

[fields_mj]

Well, I gave up drinking almost 15 years ago, so I can't blame my clumsiness on that any more. I'm not in the best of shape in my life, but at 6'2" 210 lbs, I've seen a lot worse. Throw my hunting gear, and my ML across my back and it may be as much as 250 on a cold day. Desk job has put 30 lbs on me in the last 10 years though. I've knocked 5 off in the last 2 months, but still working on another 15. The stands that we used to build out of treated lumber were at least 4' square with a shooting rail on at least 3 sides, and the front side was basically a 4' wide ladder all the way to the top. Back then, few of us had even seen a harness of any kind, let alone thought about buying one. It's one of those deals where I learned to do it wrong and did it that way for so long that I didn't give it much thought. I relocated 7 years ago, and now the land I hunt is owned by someone who's an acquaintance instead of a close personal friend of the family. So I don't go nailing or screwing stuff into his oak trees, I clean up any mess that I find, I do my best not to do any damage to his lanes, and I take him some jerky, summer sausage, cheese and crackers every year in hopes that he continues to let me hunt and cut firewood on his place. So I started buying the hang on stands and using those with 20' climbing sticks. At that point, I had been doing it wrong for so long that I just kept on doing it wrong. After all, I've always been pretty sure footed, and heights have never bothered me so what's the big deal right? My favorite stands even have a built in shooting rail. Once you're in them, it would be hard to fall out. So once again, why bother right? Well, last year I shot a nice doe with my muzzle loader during the second week of firearms season. Now my particular ML is a little on the custom side, and weighs about 15 lb, and generates right at 4,000 foot pounds of energy with a 300gr projectile. It's an extremely accurate gun, but the recoil is pretty nasty too. Well, when I shot this doe, I was in a cheap little $40 hang on stand and I actually felt the stand rock back into place after the recoil. I thought to myself "Mark, you're just plain stupid! No more hunting out of these stands without a harness!" Up until that point, I hadn't had any close calls, no slips, no loosing my balance. Even that experience wasn't a bad one, but it was enough to make me stop and think about what I was doing. So I got a harness. Like it a lot, use it every time. Should something ever go wrong, I'm confident that it will keep me from getting seriously injured. Problem is that whether it's hunting, or cutting wood, I prefer to be out when it's below freezing. That means the stand, and climbing sticks are often slick. That, or my boots have snow packed up in the treads, so they are slick on the frost covered steel. Either way, it seems a little silly to worry about falling out of a stand while I'm sitting there as still as possible, and yet give NO consideration to falling while I'm trying to actually climb up into the thing. So, now I'm on here trying to figure out a way to do it safely without breaking the bank.

I understand the concept of the throw line. Not a bad idea. Imagine that, some arborists giving me a good idea about how to safely get up into a tree. Who would'a thunk it. I would probably not use the throw line, but rather just leave a piece of nylon twine in the tree. I can't throw for crap. It's why I learned to shoot Trying to throw something over a limb 30 ft in the air an hour or more before sunrise is pretty close to my definition of impossible. Still, I could run a line up, over, and back down, and just leave it there. Basically make one big loop, and use that to get my rope up and back down again. That would let me keep the life line AND the prusik dry and unfrozen no matter what the weather was the night before. I'm liking this idea. Thanks!

Rope. R-O-P-E. Got it....

Thanks!
Mark

 

[Gologit]

Pictures! Please.

 

[Carburetorless]

I understand the concept of the throw line. Not a bad idea. Imagine that, some arborists giving me a good idea about how to safely get up into a tree. Who would'a thunk it. I would probably not use the throw line, but rather just leave a piece of nylon twine in the tree. I can't throw for crap. It's why I learned to shoot Trying to throw something over a limb 30 ft in the air an hour or more before sunrise is pretty close to my definition of impossible. Still, I could run a line up, over, and back down, and just leave it there. Basically make one big loop, and use that to get my rope up and back down again. That would let me keep the life line AND the prusik dry and unfrozen no matter what the weather was the night before. I'm liking this idea. Thanks!

Rope. R-O-P-E. Got it....

Thanks!
Mark

Ah good, I'm glad you understand what I was telling you.

And you're right, it is a very simple and useful technique, and a lot more cost effective than setting multiple ropes. And like you said, carrying the rope in your backpack keeps it dry and free of ice when it's well below the freezing point.

You might also want to make a safety lanyard, that way you can tie into the trunk of the tree just above you, so the rope won't be in your way. I'd keep both hooked up though, but you can give the rope slack so as to keep it out of your way, and just cinch up the lanyard while on stand.

Be careful, and take some time to get used to the new method of climbing before you go hunting.

 

[wudpirat]

Safety First

Hey Mark:
How can you sit in a tree stand all day? That would drive me bugchit.
During my deer hunting days, I was a prowler, hopeing to sneak up on the deer.
I did learn few things, unload the gun when you raise or lower from your stand.
On your ML. pull the cap or open the action same as crossing a fence.
What I wanted to warn you about is the infamous VAPOR KNOT.
The bowline and prusik are good knots, but the vapor is not to be trusted.
The first time you put any strain on it, poof, it is gone and you have nothing.
Bone up on your knots, tie your knots correctly. An almost correct knot can get you dead or worse.
Climb safe, you life depends on it.

Enough preaching,
CUL, FREDM

 

[tramp bushler]

With the price you've put on it it's hard to go beyond what has been said .. were it I , I would use a New Tribe, Tengu saddle Ans Samson Velocity camo rope and get a small Figure 8 to repelling down with if something went haywire and you were hanging on your rope. Until you are actually hanging in your harness you won't understand the challenges you will have getting back to terra firmament.

Correct practice makes perfact.

 

[fields_mj]

I already have a safety strap that goes around the tree above me while in the stand. I don't like the way it attaches (to difficult to thread the strap through the buckle in the dark), so I've got a different one on the way.

With the price you've put on it it's hard to go beyond what has been said .. were it I , I would use a New Tribe, Tengu saddle Ans Samson Velocity camo rope and get a small Figure 8 to repelling down with if something went haywire and you were hanging on your rope. Until you are actually hanging in your harness you won't understand the challenges you will have getting back to terra firmament.

Correct practice makes perfact.

Acutally, I have some understanding of that. I did have the bottom of a climber drop out from under me once. Thankfully, it was tied to the top half, so I was able to get it put back in place. Last time I went up in a climbing stand.

Thanks for the info guys! This has helped a lot! Thanks for the reference to the roap also. Any suggestions on what rope to use to make the Prusik with?

Certainly going to need to practice with the bow line. I've seen the illustrations, but never actually tied one. With enough practice, it should be very doable though.

Thanks agian!
Mark

 

[wudpirat]

Tying knots

Something I do but don't recomend.
I worked the third shift for 29 years and odd habits die hard.
Lunch time was around 3 AM, so I have a minimum or a cup of coffee around that time.
While sitting on the edge of the bed, I have a five foot length of rope and I practice my knot tying.
My boys think I'm weird but harmless.
The prusik requires a second rope so I have to put another line up tied to the bed post.
Yes I know, crazyer than a bed bug, but I can tie knots in the dark.
CUL FREDM

No MACs were harmed while typing this.

 

[tramp bushler]

I absolutely recommend the book, The Tree Climbers Companion by Jeff Jepson. Not spendy and an awesome resource. I.m.o.Every person who does ANYTHING outdoors should be proficient at tying the bowline. Next to tying your shoes and a clove hitch its about the most useful knot on earth. !!!!!!!!

 

[fields_mj]

Hey Mark:
How can you sit in a tree stand all day? That would drive me bugchit.
During my deer hunting days, I was a prowler, hopeing to sneak up on the deer.
I did learn few things, unload the gun when you raise or lower from your stand.
On your ML.

I like to stalk and hunt, but around here it just gets too dangerous to spend much time on the ground. Espeically during firearms season. I've even run into problems on land where I was the only one who had permission to hunt it. I don't sit "all day." I will sit thought noon when I can, and then be back around 2:00 or so and set through dark. During archery season its nice and quiet, and that makes it quite enjoyable for me.

I am a firearms instructor on the side, and I wouldn't even dream of climbing up into a stand with a loaded weapon. I don't unload the ML, but I always take the cap/primer off. These days I use a Savage ML10-II with a custom thumbhole stock and my own custom camo paint job. When bowhunting, I use a line to bring up my bow and backpack if I'm carrying it. During gun season, I use the line to bring up the pack, but the gun goes up with me. I remove the primer, and put the sling over my head with the gun across my back pointing diagonally down. Loaded or not, I just can't bring myself to pull a gun up into the tree while staring down its barrel. I tried it a few times years ago, and came to the conclusion that it was a bad idea. It violates the "safe direction" or "don't point any gun at anything you're not willing to destroy" rule. If I did it muzzle down, I wound up getting stuff in the end of the barrel which is another no-no. I also found that trying to lean over and fish the gun up through the leaves and limbs, trying to get it un-caught any time a twig got snagged on it, all while trying to keep from banging it against the tree/steps/climbing sticks was a good way to loose my ballence. This way the rifle stays with me, out of the way, and pointed in a safe direction the entire time. Once in the stand, I have to unhook the sling to get it off my head due to the teather on my harness, but I use QD sling swivels, to that's pretty easy.

 

[tramp bushler]

[ you guys prolly don't down there. But lots of Alaskans tape their muzzles. . A couple layers of electric/duct tape works. Great! !!!! . Some times it will rain 3" in a days SouthEast deer hunt.

 

[climb4fun]

i never climb with my rifle. i have a savage with a the thumb hole stock as well and something that thumb hole is great for is running a line through. climb up and then raise the rifle up into the tree once you're secured. it keeps it from hitting anything or getting hung up while climbing. works great.