Helped a friend

[treeman82]

For those of you who frequent the chat room this should be no suprise. For those of you who do not... well I can't say the same for you.

Thursday a friend of mine called me up needing some help with a tree job. I went to his house, we loaded up his bronco and we went up to the area we had to be in. Approximatley a 25 - 30 mile drive. We get to the area and my friend says "I hope I can find the house" He tells me that the last time he was there was 1 month ago when he was drunk, and that was only to look at the job. He had the guy's phone number (which we called) but nobody was home. He had the guy's first name, no; last name, street name, street number. So we had nothing that we could take to a phone book. He had talked with the customer the night before, and didn't think to get directions as he was pretty buzzed. Well after driving around a bunch of side roads for about 1/2 an hour with no luck, we went to Taco Bell, got lunch and went home.
Friday I went back over to my friend's house and we headed back up to the same general area. He had called up the customer the night before and got directions. I asked him if he knew how to go and he then handed me a paper with some directions on it... I look at them... wrong directions... wrong county. We found the job though with little difficulty this time. My friend had told me that the job was a 4 hr job in and out 2 people. We get there and its 5 good size pine trees all leaning over the house. Can't just drop them due to other trees in back of these. I hear the price... $600 for the 5 of them Customer gets home later in the day when we had 2 1/2 on the ground and asks about another 1 pine tree which was 2x the size of the other 5 pines and also over the house. My friend quoted $175 for it
I went to my friend's house tonight to watch a movie and asked him before leaving if we had to remove the 6th pine tree tomorow. He simply said that he did not know.
I must say in his defense that all the brush and wood from these pine trees is staying on the property, and the original agreement was that they stay where they land. However my friend has been moving the stuff around so that we can work. So basically he is dragging all the brush into the woods for free.

 

[Stumper]

82, No offense intended but I think you need a better class of"friend".

 

[treeman82]

I think you're right Stumper. I just wanted to share these recent developments with you guys in order so you could all get a good laugh.

 

[murphy4trees]

Sounds like your friend could use a crash course in tree estimating..
I pruned six medium white pines last year for the neighbor of a friend who lived 75 minutes away. I usually don't drive more than 20 minutes. Sunday afternoon by myself, with pick-up, no chipper. Tipping back and shaping what could be reached with an 18' pole clip while standing in the truck's bed. No climbing.. all brush fit in one load. $400 and I got a good visit and meal with my friend. Made a couple pro bono cuts with power pruner on lower deadwood in a few other trees and hand pruned a couple shrubs.. left that brush.. and the customer was thrilled.
We all deserve our piece of the pie and will only get it when we start asking for it. I gave away too much work for too amny years.. NO MORE..
God Bless All,
Daniel

 

[Greg]

I would have asked your friend why he only bidded the job to pay you and he was working for free. I do a good bit of pines, $175 won't get you too far, 5 trees over the house for $600 is nuts! I think 200 each for the 5 and leaving all the debris would have been more in the ballpark. I'd tell that guy not to call you for climbing jobs, he doesn't sound like a friend to me.

I agree about working for free -it sucks. I did a job recently for a family memeber, low market price for this job would have been $950, I did it for $450. As I'm going up he gets in the car to leave and does not come back until I am packing up to leave. This included wood removal where I busted my a$$ with a dolly and trailer to save on haul off. I got so pissed at him while I was up there I intentionally busted down part of his fence (that I asked him to have moved before I got there!). He also has 2 big fat 800lbs+ logs sittig in his yard that I have not yet had the time to go pick up. I'll get around to that some time before the end of one of the new few months... ---I got the check before I left on day 1---. I've had other similar incidents. If people are paying you a dime they tned to treat you like the hired help.
I now tell friends and family <<unless very close>> to go get a bunch of estimates and I'll see if I can beat the lowest. That way they know the market price, and if I do cut them a deal they will know it.
Greg

 

[Tim Gardner]

Treeman82,

Did you get paid for the climbing? And if so, how much? $150.00 a day for just climbing is going rate around here. If he underbids his jobs that is his problem.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

But Matt has his own company, why go out and work for soemone else for peanuts when he can go do his own work?

Unless it is direct family or a neighbor, I will give market value to the bid. Unless there is trade available. Got a DED elm coming down this weekend for a friend of my sisters. Medium size, put it on the ground. they will ground for me, $300.

It is my sweat equity and my liability.

 

[Tim Gardner]

$39,000.00 take home a year sounds pretty good as opposed to what is left over after paying for insurance, insurance for four trucks (dump, bucket, chip and p/up), maintenance for all the saws stumpgrinder chipper & trucks, tags and taxes on the trucks, fuel, workman’s comp, payroll taxes, yellow page adds, the accountant, taxes on gross income, all the time spent bidding, business cards, statements, proposals, business license (15% after the first $2,000.00 in one city here), telephone, cables and hoses for the bucket truck every few years, saw chain, files, stump grinder teeth, days when some of the crew lay out, entire days wasted putting a large bid together for the city knowing the lowest bid will win, etc., etc. ……… And all the headache and worries of keeping it all together.

$150.00 for just ridding on a 60 mile round trip drive sounds pretty good too. I get paid whether I start a saw that day or not. My boss does not get paid until the job is completed. My father owned a tree service for over 30 years. He made a great living for himself ($250,000.00 some years) but I was there to see what it did to him and his family. I go home and sleep just fine with no worries with my “peanuts”.

 

[treeman82]

John, I was workin for this kid because I don't have anything of my own going on right now... with that in mind I did pick up a small tree job out in CT today, and I have a few other BS things to do here and there.
Greg, you are definatley correct. I believe that $200 per tree for just get it to the ground would have been rather accurate. We got the last 3 1/2 trees down today, and when the last one came down the guy asked my friend if he could cut up the sticks for him... (guy doesn't have a chain saw ) My friend spent probably about an hour trying to cut the logs up for the guy and I think he is going back one day to cut more (why I have no idea) I told him that I hoped he was getting more to cut up the logs to which he replied "the guy doesn't have a chain saw" aka: same price / more work.
I do have one funny story to add for today, we packed up his bronco this morning, and headed up, got to the job... where's the gas for the saws
I got paid $120 for... maybe 2 hrs on Thursday of doing basically nothing other than riding around in the bronco, 5 hrs on Friday, and 7 - 8 hrs today. I then had to go tonight and wash 2 of my ropes plus both of my belly lines plus my split tail because they were all caked in pine sap. MAN DO I HATE PINES!
I am not too happy at all about gettin paid what I did get paid. Especially when he says if I wanted him to climb for me he requires $300 per day.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

39 take home as a subcontractor who's expenses are travel and basic tools, liability and truck insurance.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Travel? Are you talking about my 15 min drive every morning? I actually work for one person with the occasional phone call coming in needing a climber for big or dangerous trees. The guy I work for is great.So I stick with him. Even if it rains all week (like this week so far) I still get half the weeks pay.

So with rain days etc. it's not 39 but with the side jobs I climb on the much higher pay makes up for the difference.

 

[Tim Gardner]

JP,

I am not saying owners are not making more $. Most of them are. I was just trying to point out that a few of us climbers are happy making less $ with less worries. My father made great money working for himself. I am not my father. Maybe when I get older I will start a tree service. I still feel young (33) and I am enjoying life and the work. When I was running my father's crew, I never had fun and HATED climbing. Now that I am climbing for Tim and not Billy, I am having fun. Now I can't get enough "air Time" even when the sweat is pooring into my eyes @ 3:00 and there is two more big pines left to climb.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

That is why I work for several different companies. I love climbing and want to do just that. (I do drag some brush too)

I don't want to spray, I don't want to plant, no stup ginding...And... I don't want to work for the same crew all the time. I love working with other people all the time. traveling to other states every once and a while seeing different trees.....

Anyone want to put me in some live oaks?