Hemlock Forest 80% dead

[JeffE]

Occasionally, you'll find a scientist who is acquainted with the idea of intellectual honesty, and they'll admit this. For example:
. . .
Unfortunately, we've been so brainwashed about the supposed objectivity of "science", that we'll swallow just about any half-witted notion that comes along, if it is only wrapped in the hallowed robes of "science", no matter how weak - or non-existent - the evidence.

Part of the strength of science is that new or better evidence will lead to theories and hypotheses being revisited, revised, improved, or even discarded. Scientists consider nothing to be 100% "proven," and therefore there is no dogma to be threatened. When new evidence disproves an old theory, we celebrate! It's progress.

You seem to imply that the Theory of Evolution is not very strong. It is one of the best-supported scientific theories out there, with no contradictory evidence yet encountered, and it is the foundation of our modern understanding of biology. If you'd like to debate that, I invite you to start a thread in the off-the-topic forum.

 

[xtremetrees]

If a tree displays 60% needle loss will it still support HWA infestation?
Perhaps cambistat application in the region would help?

 

[appalachianarbo]

Actually, the white stuff is the cottony, waxy protective layers that the adelgid forms to protect itself and the young when not in crawler stage. The predator beetles are Pseudoscymnus tsugae (Pt). The ones in the pictures were raised in NJ at the Dept. of Agriculture Lab in Trenton. The beetles are from Japan, and were brought over in '95 to help out.
I don't know at what point of defoliation the adelgid will stop feeding, but I don't think cambistat would slow down the beetle. It may lead to a quicker death because the tree wouldn't be able to flush out fully each spring, so the adelgid could consume a tree quicker. A real expert on the subject is Hugh Conway at Clemson, who runs their rearing lab.

 

[xtremetrees]

Good read.
Is the title of this thread accurate? Is it really as bad as the Chestnut bligh during the early 1900's

 

[xtremetrees]

As I started this thread oh some 7 months ago I wanted to update it..

ALL THE HEMLOCKS ARE DEAD!

Extending from north Atlanta to Gatlinberg, TN. Where they seem to stop.
All Hemlock trees look brown/dead with over 60% needle loss.
It's awfull there are dead trees over roads, picknic tables, resturants, powerlines, everything. Hemlocks by the millons are dead.

To the dude that said its just a scare and the sky's not falling" Have a look at the Great Smoky Montains, anywhere you look youll see last years beautiful Hemlock tree is now dead.

Has there been any expermintatoin with Cambistat to stunt the trees to 60% needle loss to prevent the bugs from continuing sortof like a boundry of cambistat treated hemlocks to stop the spread? I know this sounds crazy you mean 1/2 kill a tree so it do3esnt die? Anything to stop it?
Also on trees with 50% or greater needle loss what are their survivable rates?
I wonder what the smokies will look like next year when all that lush green has turned to stark white bark falling off.

 

[B-Edwards]

I am treating Hemlocks in my area for this pest (HWA) and am having good results. If you think its not for real come on up, or down, i can show you many stumps and still standing dead Hemlocks along the parkway and backroads of my county from this little pest. Home owners can save the trees on thier property with the right treatment. We do a soil injection and depending if its a hedge or tree we spray also for mites. I've found spraying alone doesnt seem to work as well as the injection. But it would be nice to find an alternative to spraying or injections that would actualy work. I dont think at this time there is great hope for a predator for this insect to eliminate pesticides , But lets hope. Oh yeah, the Smokies will look bad and soon.

 

[Sprig]

Sorry to hear about this, it is a tragedy. Many parts of the BC interior have been devastated by the pine beetle, millions of acres of forest gone and the wood next to useless by the time anyone gets to it, pulp. Hopefully you folks down there have a better re-forestry plan than we do. Why when this started to become an obvious disaster here we didn't start a massive alternate species project I have never understood.

 

[xtremetrees]

Hey ya'll thanks for sharing.
After all day of pounding keys and sitting here we've got this for the treatment of saving hemlocks from the wha.

transferring research and science and ideas into technology is a major challenge, and the major goal of ISA This is from a BCMA of the ISA that cant support a forum for tree folks to write to and contribute findings, facts, and efforts. Seer I'm lmao at you. lol I bet you didnt even know how to stop the biggest tree killer thats kilt over 100,000,000 trees in the last 5-6 years.


I started off using Hort oil and after a few times of burning trees i switched to Merit 75wsp.If this is sprayed on a hedge i can almost promise you will have mites a few months later. I tried the #$%^^ injection system and all i did was blow the bark off trees and i realy think thats all any 1 using it is doing. Its a great tool for other tree injections but not the Hemlock. What i do now is i spray 1st with merit (if its a tree) or Dimethoate if its a hedge because of mites , then i do a soil injection using Merit75WSP at the recomended rate.The results arent imediate the white sacks stay around and depending on uptake it can take months but i've found its the best way for treatment

Thanks yo I owe ya big time!
Take credit if ya like b bro. You deserve it.

ps I'm trying to get the lady to fly you in, treeseer I'm not talking to you

 

[moss]

Hey Xtreme, you probably already figured this out but reducing the the needles to 60 or 40% will do nothing to stop the adelgids, they keep on feeding as long as there are live needles anywhere in the tree. Someone I know quoted the minimum needle percentage a hemlock needs to survive, I think it was at 30% that the tree starves to death. At that point the adelgids are done with the tree.
-moss

 

[xtremetrees]

I just emailed a famous person so the TV crews and the Book writers will be posting soon.
No bro I didnt know that.
But as seen on tv uhh dead trees.

B told me on the phone about the buds are only apical and that once the inner buds are eaten it wont put on new inner leaves/needles. He's the only one I know have saved the trees in his area.
SoBit here comes your spot your going on CNN bro.

 

[diltree]

I have been treating the Hemlock W. Adelgids with soil injections and micro-injections depending on badly they are infested. It remains to be seen if my efforts will be a success in the long run, but as for now it seems like we are getting results, the few hemlocks I treated with a micro-injection in the spring show no signs of infestation at this point.



www.dillontree.com

 

[Arbre]

Xtremetrees: I work with the "famous" person to whom you sent the email. He put it in my box to read.

What is the furthest south confirmed report of HWA in Georgia? A woman brought a hemlock branch to me that had HWA from her tree in Alpharetta. She left before giving me her contact information, so I have no way to do a site visit or to follow up.

 

[xtremetrees]

Hello Arbre welcome to the Arborist site.
I'm not sure just how far they have extended south. Alphretta is as far south as I've heard um goin. I'm afraid the question may be how far Hemlocks extend south. I'm in Canton but I've seen none here.
What I dont get is the bug came to VA in the 50's and headed north. As well as in the 20's the first report was in Cali. Why didn't we have some sort of plan in place. We had just watched the chestnut blight wipe them out during the 30's, 40's and 50's surely we were aware of the possibilities of loosing all the trees. No reforestation plan no nothing. Just like Sprig has stated in British Columbia.

In the last year I've been watching them die myself. Along the way I'd stop and talk to county extension agents from Atlanta north, most took my information cordially but were unimpressed with the bugs. If you look now at the Great Smokey Mountains its becomming more obvious but next year when the stark whiteness of bark stands out in a sea of green. Folks will say, "hey what's going on? That was a nice forest now look." Compared to 18 months ago there was almost no sign of the bugs to me. Id say in the last 24 months they have all been wiped out. I'm sorry I didnt take any pics.

Dillion Can you post some specifics as to your treaments so that we can get some comparison and possibly some objective praticial pratices to put out. I know that some praticies will bring spidermites which can kill the Hemlocks 6 months after treatment. As this may be the only pratical experience we have it should be put out. Extension agents and foresters really dont have the hands on 5-6 yrs experience we do. Dillion your up north right ?how many years have you been dealing with it? Sence the bug has been there longer it seems youd have most the info we could use. Are you only treating in the spring?

Applicacianarbor: Hows are the predator bugs surviving in Joyce Kilmer National Forest? Are the high traffic areas where the predators were released being effective?

 

[Arbre]

Have you looked at this site:

http://www.gainvasives.org/hwa/

 

[xtremetrees]

Have you looked at this site:

http://www.gainvasives.org/hwa/

AWSOME!

 

[B-Edwards]

Treatment can be done in the fall and is recomended by the maker of Merit 75WSP . Mites can be a problem after treatment with Merit but its usualy isolated to hedges instead of trees. Most if not all of the injection treatments you hear about will have the same active ingredient (imidacloprid) hope i spelled that right. I do have alot of experience with this although there are other treatment options. Any1 needing information feel free to Pm me, I'll help best i can.

 

[diltree]

We use Merit soil injection treatment in some cases and also vivid 2 micro-injection or harpoon micro-injection in other cases. Treatment is best in our spring and I believe B-edwards is correct about the active ingredients. I have been treating it in our area for two years including this season, so I'm really not 100% sure of the long term fruits of the treatments, because treatment is mostly about control and keeping HWA populations down so they don't kill the hemlocks. Southern New England has had far worse an infestation then mass, but I'm seeing more and more hemlocks plagued this season then ever........heres a link for micro-injection information.


www.treetech.net


www.dillontree.com

 

[trees4est]

The soil injection of imidacloprid is the most effective and cheapest way of treating with the longest residual activity. Some research plots up north have control after 6 years, but down south I wouldn't expect that at all. Two years is certainly reasonable. Control depends on soils, weather, and the individual trees, including how large they are. One important point to remember is the more organic matter in the soil, the better the chemical binds and doesn't move.
While the low dosage can work well on smaller trees, newer research is showing on larger trees (above 25 inches dbh) the higher rate is recommended. Imidacloprid can stimulate spider mite populations, and I've seen it pretty bad a couple places this year, but we've also had a very dry spring here, which makes mites much, much worse. If the trees are healthy, the mites shouldn't kill them, but they sure do stress them out. Many trees here were just getting over the last big drought and the ensuing elongate hemlock scale when the adelgid hit.
But yeah, most places in the Smokies are hammered. Here's a link to a story about a tree we found growing in about the ultimate hemlock forest. Well, it used to be:
http://www.uark.edu/misc/ents/tsuga/caldwell_colossus/caldwell_colossus.htm

 

[nitwit dolt]

Hwa

I've been working on this for about fifteen years, and there is no cure. It is simply a control strategy. There is nothing that will eradicate this pest. Merit is the only way to go as far as long term results. Oil is good and can work if caught early enough. I have even read reports that state that high pressure water sprays blowing the egg masses out will offer some control. As far as the beetle is considered, I have not heard of a release that has succeeded in establishing a significant population. Good luck and keep up the good fight. I'm in eastern Mass., so my conditions are much different than yours. I doubt if my timing strategies will help, but feel free to contact me with any questions.