herbicide vandalism - what chemical was used?

[Linma]

Read through this because I sometimes find these, neighbors with adjacent property issues ,
to be somewhat "educational". I haven't really seen any mention of what falls from the trees.
I'm an east coaster,so not familiar with this type of tree and what it drops.
Does it tend to be a continual shedder, or have a something like a fall leaf raking season/ How about the blossoms or seeds? Is there any reason your neighbor might feel that the tree creates
a cleanup problem or stains something. Do they have any landscaping that the seeds may land in and tend to be prolific starters?

this is the neighbor's yard. left side of the fence is the neighbor's yard. It's pretty much untended and barren (no landscaping, other than weeds..). it's too steep to really spend any time there the way it is. And before anyone says, there's a 4in gap in the fence and that is how I got this photo.



I love to talk about red flowering gum tree.

C. ficifolia is evergreen. seasonally it may shed a bit of leaves preparing for new growth, but nothing like pine (where our neighbor's pine trees dropped pine needles and pollen cones every year in our yard that filled a 32gal trash can a week. not to mention huge pine cones and 5ft branches that the squirrels chew off and drop. if you think 5ft branches are nothing to note, just imagine a 5ft Christmas tree dropping from the sky...). In our yard we have many coast live oaks (evergreen), and the oaks shed more leaves every year for us than the flowering gum. C. ficifolia does drop seed pods that are like small golf-ball sized round hard things, and also the flower cone (don't know what they're called) after it finishes flowering but the flower cone is usually just once and it's gone. seed pods can fall year round. not sure if that is due to natural cycle or the squirrels. we have tons of squirrels that mob the tree to get at the seeds, so.. they're the one doing most of the dropping.

It attracts a lot of honeybees when it blooms. It's ok if you have dirt around the tree, but if it's next to concrete, one could step on the round seed pods and could slip on it (imagine stepping on a golf ball), so wouldn't recommend near concrete walkways that needs to be swept clean. but our tree leans away from the fence line so most the droppings land in our yard (you can see from the photo above there is no seriously overhanging branch or anything). I just kick the seed balls to a corner and eventually throw them out. they're dry and very woody so don't leave any residues if you leave it around, just a tripping hazard. our kids like to collect them and play with them. Blossom is gum-like, which means the petals are like fine threads. when the flowers die, the petals could dusts over things, but usually it's light enough that the wind blows it away or collect in a corner for easy sweep on patio. Flower is long-lasting -- weeks if not months.

this web site has some good photos: http://lh2treeid.blogspot.com/2010/03/eucalyptus-ficifolia-red-flowering-gum.html

some brief info on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corymbia_ficifolia

 

[Linma]

Hi.
I was asked to come here by another member as I'm a Senior Horticultural Agronomist with a major agricultural company and was previously a consultant.

MCW, many thanks for your information. I think currently I'll see it tested for triclopyr.. and if that fails, whatever chemical RoundUp is using (glyphosate?)

Is glyphosate worse than tricloyr when applied to trees mixed with diesel fuel/kerosene, in terms of toxicity? just because the neighbor claimed that is what it was (but I am skeptical. it's easier to point to a well-known brand and say he used RoundUp to kill the weeds and accidentally gotten it on the tree, as opposed to using something that is geared towards killing woody plants since that would either be an overkill or ineffective for weed/grassy plants...)

I talked to few consulting arborists, and they all told me not to give any fertilizer. They said that fertilizers are form of salt and that can stress the tree in this state.. so the only thing to do is to do deep irrigation once or twice a week, to try to supplement the lost root functions due to the toxin. But growth promoters (hormone?) may be different... I have callistamon and cotoneaster flanking the tree. so am a bit concerned with growth promoters...

Also if the toxins are applied to the trunk and cuts off water route, where the chemical contacted I understand the area above the damage will die due to lack of water. but if someone drills into one big root and start pouring chemicals on it, does the toxin spread to the rest of the tree too? or be confined just to that root?

And yes. the flowering part of the tree is the trunks that the herbicide least hit. there are 4 trunks. one that got the most blast (the one with the most stain on its trunk) seems unresponsive. the second one has one leader that still retained leaves and is sprouting at the tips. the third was about 50% ok until the neighbor drilled holes in the roots and (allegedly) poured and continually pours poison into it. Now the branches associated with this trunk is showing signs of reddening/dessication. the fourth trunk was fully shielded by the blast, and that one seems to be going ok, for now. it's end of the summer here in the US, so it's not its growth season. so I'm hoping this coming winter (hoping the drought will end!) when it starts raining a lot, the tree will show signs of life in those badly affected trunks...

just so sad :-(

 

[treeseer]

Love this! Maybe trim the so it looks like a big middle finger

Great in theory, but without repairing the fence or other deterrent what's to prevent more trespass and vandalism?

There are low-salt fertilizers. C you get the soil tested?

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Well, in all honesty , I would probably plant a bunch of stuff to piss the guy off myself. Is that wrong?

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

And when it comes to giving advice to people who are fighting with their neighbors about trees, well, I advise them not to ever call me again. Sure is fun to watch though.

 

[066blaster]

I am a certified pesticide applicator, and certified restricted use pesticide applicator. I highly doubt anyone sprayed diesel fuel on your tree. A few drops of that would leave a unmistakable odor. Glyphosate (round up ) does smell like paint and soap while still wet and I spray hundreds of gallons a year. He could have added crop oil to the round up, this would turn it milky white. The whole thing kinda sounds ridiculous. . And if he was using diesel fuel there would be no need to add round up. And if they test it and find whatever chemical in it, how do you prove he was responsible? I think you would have to get him on camera. It's not easy to kill a tree with round up. He would really have to get it on alot of leaves. Maybe using a super soaker or something to get way up there. If he is that worried about the view maybe he would do some outlandish things. Good luck.

 

[Linma]

I am a certified pesticide applicator, and certified restricted use pesticide applicator. I highly doubt anyone sprayed diesel fuel on your tree. A few drops of that would leave a unmistakable odor. Glyphosate (round up ) does smell like paint and soap while still wet and I spray hundreds of gallons a year.

I have a bottle of RoundUp concentrate (needed to kill lots of poison oaks) and it is not oily. the liquid was still dripping wet 5-6 hours after it was sprayed onto the tree (we have surveillance camera footage showing the neighbor doing something, and walking around the yard holding what looks like a small spray bottle and wearing blue gloves, but can't tell exactly what he's doing since it's in the peripheral view of the camera, unfortunately. but it gives me a timeline). The RoundUp I ahve doesn't smell like what's on the tree. Also, the RoundUp you spray (assuming it's not mixed in with any oily surfactant), does the smell linger for weeks and months after application? The bigger tree was sprayed back in December. if I get close enough to the tree trunk where it was sprayed, even if the stain is no longer visible, I can still smell the same hydrocarbon smell on its bark.

the "hydrocarbon smell" as the arborist put it, is very distinctive. It's not horribly offensive like gasoline. like I mentioned earlier, more like old oil paint. (not oil paint used on structures, but oil paint used in art paintings on canvas)

I'll have to go to a gas station and take whiff of diesel. I've only smelled diesel exhaust, but I don't think I ever smelled diesel fuel itself... I'll also try to find some kerosene sample somewhere. I'll report back after I go take a whiff and compare. I hope it is not diesel since from what I could find on the web, that stuff is quite toxic in the ground. we are about 300ft from a natural watershed (creek). Once diesel is diluted and goes into the soil can it affect shrubs around it? that would be very bad...

 

[treeseer]

Sounds like the policeman has evidence of criminal trespass--enough to press charges?

Even with that slope it's hard to see how spraying over a 6' fence is feasible. Is 6' the limit?

 

[Linma]

Sounds like the policeman has evidence of criminal trespass--enough to press charges?

Even with that slope it's hard to see how spraying over a 6' fence is feasible. Is 6' the limit?

Unfortunately he tresspassed just out of camera range... So we can place him at the scene, but don't have a footage of him actually reaching over and spraying...

It's easy to reach over that 6' fence. When we used to try to talk to him (or when he called out to us), he would stand just on the other side of the fence a foot or two away and be towering over the top of it, due to the steep grade. To reach over, just hook your foot on the bottom rail (about 1ft off the ground) and get on your tiptoes.

yes. regulation here is 6ft... I would LOVE to have a 12-15ft solid fence there. trying to achieve that with shrubs and medium size trees, but as you know...

 

[sac-climber]

Great in theory, but without repairing the fence or other deterrent what's to prevent more trespass and vandalism

IDK treeseer, maybe a crossbow and a German Sheppard? We could make a tree fort and take shifts!

 

[LegDeLimber]

Thanks for the answers. " Linma, Sunday at 3:40 PM "
Sorry that the best thing I had in mind was perhaps offering to walk over and tidy up some leaf/tree litter on your usual lawnwork days, IF anything truly was accumulating etc.
While it wouldn't reverse the current tree spraying, I was just thinking perhaps something a bit more diplomatic in any future dealings.

I have willow oak ( and those skinny leaves that mat into the grass so well) and pecan trees amongst things on my property.
Come Fall leaf blowing season, I'll often sort of drift over like the leaves themselves and blow the heavier spots back into my own yard during cleanup.

Of course for that idea to be feasible we're dependent on several variables in the social order of things, peoples schedules, privacy concerns, landscaping and other variables ( leaf blower noise debates, anyone?)

Hope you guys can find a answer and can keep us informed as things progress.

 

[Raintree]

How does DEP (dept of env protection?) get involved?

All chemical trespass cases in my state get referred to DEP. Give it a try they may help.

http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/database/CalEPA_Complaint/index.cfm

 

[Marshy]

I suggest you bake him some "special" brownies and make a peace offering to him. Wait a week then make an anonymous phone call to report suspecious behavior. The problem will work itself out.

 

[Linma]

OK, you guys are all funny But thanks.

Anyway, I took a whiff of diesel. the stuff is definitely not mixed with diesel (whew).

Still can't find any place with an open container of Garlon that I can try smelling in the area.

Raintree: thank you for the link. I will check into contacting DEP. may be someone there can take a whiff and know what the stuff is...

 

[Marshy]

Careful with that stuff, someone will turn you in for suspicious behavior. Lol good luck.

 

[leadarrows]

The vibe I was picking up is that there is indeed a valuable view the neighbor is after and the OP isn't the least bit concerned about this aspect of her neighbors property value.

Has the option been explored that would make both parties happy? There are lots of vegetation options but I'm not familiar with the OP's environment.

If the up hill neighbor were really nasty he would explore the option of using a slingshot or similar rig to throw granulated herbicide formulations over the fence.

There are two sides to every story and we are just getting one side.

BTW, roundup applications can send up clouds of vapor that can do serious damage to trees some distance away. I was called once by a fellow with a few acre orchard who had applied roundup some distance away from his trees but evidently it vaporized and did some pretty serious damage.

So he planted the tree fifty years before the neighbor even lived there to screw with the guys view? I got a vibe about you as well and it ant good.

 

[Linma]

Lead the tree that has been butchered belongs to the guy that wants the view and does not belong to the person who has come here about her trees being damaged by herbicides.

Del_, I recommend you actually go re-read the first sentence of my first post. He butchered our 30ft mature tree twice (starting one year after he moved in). THEN he butchered and removed his own 50+ft trees that were flanking our tree. THEN he (allegedly) poisoned our trees...

May be I should do this:
http://westseattleblog.com/2010/12/west-seattle-property-owner-claims-tree-poisoning-hangs-banner/

 

[moojpg2]

That isnt a tree any more its a vertical piece of firewood

 

[derwoodii]

May be I should do this:

i did similar when a tree was poisoned & then told by the perp it was a danger,,,,, so i made it safe by wrapping up in para web for a few weeks..
While sorta fun these thing are just media stunts and the perp will not care less for all the effort wasted so if your not blessed with time and spare cash its often best moving on planting new trees avoid grief between SOB neighbor no one wins these fights just the lawyers.

 

[Linma]

i did similar when a tree was poisoned & then told by the perp it was a danger,,,,, so i made it safe by wrapping up in para web for a few weeks..
While sorta fun these thing are just media stunts and the perp will not care less for all the effort wasted so if your not blessed with time and spare cash its often best moving on planting new trees avoid grief between SOB neighbor no one wins these fights just the lawyers.


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Sorry you had to deal with SOB neighbor too.

Unfortunately as soon as I plant new trees, he will poison it as he already has. he is ignorant (all trees = 100ft monsters) and brazen. even with three police visits and interviews, I saw him doing stuff to the root of the tree again. (again, can't see because he's hidden behind the fence, but there's the telltale sign of the strong hydrocarbon smell... ARRRGH!)

May bad karma catch up to these tree killers in the worst possibly way, and may they suffer!