Historic Pecan Failure

[appalachianarbo]

I did a consultation for a woman today with a 200 yr old pecan that lost a major leader. Where I could reach it, it was 29" diameter. The tree itself is 57" DBH and 90 ft tall. She wants to keep it because of aesthetics and historic value. I agree with her. Improper pruning led to deep decay into the trunk which played a major part in the split. There is now only half of the tree left (another major lead split off some time ago). That half is headed towards her historic plantation house

I couldn't tell her the tree was safe, yet I wasn't going to tell her it had to come down. I said I couldn't be sure of the exent of the decay and how it has affected the remaining leader. I recommended a yearly climbing inspection (with resistograph) to follow decay, some weight reduction on the remaining tips towards the house, and a couple cobras to give her more piece of mind (I told her that the cables would not reduce the risk of the whole tree failing, but would help should smaller failures occur). I also recommended enlarging the mulched area, adding mychorrizae, and radial trench mulching to alleviate compaction.

Check out the pics...What do you think?

Anybody near the Landrum, SC area that can help her do the pruning & cables? I don't have the insurance for climbing anymore, and it's a bit far to drive with equipment.

 

[Stachura01]

Takes a lot of heart to tell someone their beloved tree is a high risk hazard and should be removed.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It looks like a large inclusion was involved here too.

From the little I can see in the pix this tree is not a save, but control of decline. I've not worked with pecan, but the Carya that I have worked with tends to decay slowly, so the massive peel out on the trunk could be monitored and the tree removed at a later date.

The cost may be significantly higher due to risk at that later date.

I oppose annual invasive examinations, too much breaking of extant CODIT. Use invasive measures for the first examination, then subsequent visits be done by sounding the trunk with a mallet by the same qualified practitioner.

The maybe 5-10 years later, if the truck still sound good, then invasive exam to compare to the baseline. only if the soundings are bad would I want to drill earlier.

 

[Canyon Angler]

Interesting thread. Nice tree. I know little about trees, but I like pecans, and I'd err on the side of the tree, not the house.

BTW, what variety pecan? Mahan (papershell), by any chance?

 

[treeseer]

From the little I can see in the pix this tree is not a save, but control of decline.

We'll have to explore the difference over a beverage sometime.

I'm going out that way next weekend to do an inventory in Andrews (ever been there, app arbo?) I'd love to stop by there and prune it; pecans are one of my faves, fairly easy to reduce. Even Codit did it, in the attached. Eqpt needs? Rope, saddle, polesaw, they fit in my honda wagon.

"Takes a lot of heart to tell someone their beloved tree is a high risk hazard and should be removed."

Takes common sense and basic arboricultural skills to tell them that risk can be lowered to an acceptable level. :monkey:

 

[appalachianarbo]

JPS - Good eyes. From my report:

The other major reason that this large section failed is because of bark “inclusion.” This occurs when two branches (leaders) originate from close to the same point and grow in nearly the same vertical plane. As the branches grow larger, they press against each other, trapping bark between the two branches. This is a structural weak point in the tree, because all though it may look like it, the two branches are not actually attached except at the base. The growth in diameter of the two stems continues to push the branches apart, commonly leading to failure of one stem.

I didn't climb or use a resistograph. JPS makes a good point about breaking the CODIT barrier. In my report, I recommended that trunk sounding be performed, but that by the time a distinct sound difference is heard, the tree may be on the ground. Maybe the resistograph schedule can be stretched, but a yearly inspection is still warranted.

Canyon - You know, I didn't even think about what variety!

Guy - I got your PM. I'll be in touch. I wasn't concerned about toting climbing gear...it's the cleanup I was thinking about!

 

[treeseer]

Guy - I got your PM. I'll be in touch. I wasn't concerned about toting climbing gear...it's the cleanup I was thinking about!

O yeah cleanup...drag it to the curb and call the town/county, that's all I would do, unless there are woods to bury it in. If there is a local company with a chipper, I'd call em in for an hour and have em spread a load of mulch while they are at it.

re cabling, for a tree that age and stiffness, what is the advantage of a dynamic system? I can put in a static cable after I prune it, if that fork looks like it is bad or will be bad after the wound starts to rot. from the looks of the last pic, the limbs growing toward the house should come back 5-15'.The top may get thinned now or later, depending.

looking forward to it--inventory work is frustratingly easy; it'd be nice to schedule a good climb/prune job into the trip.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

We'll have to explore the difference over a beverage sometime.

IMO it goes towards client expectastions. Saving the tree implies that you can go in there and do the work then go on a normal pruning cycle and the tree will be there for years to come.

The controlled decline requires a more frequent maintenance cycle and the client needs to understand that they will probably have to remove it during their tenure of custodianship.

 

[treeseer]

IMO it goes towards client expectastions. Saving the tree implies that you can go in there and do the work then go on a normal pruning cycle and the tree will be there for years to come.

The controlled decline requires a more frequent maintenance cycle and the client needs to understand that they will probably have to remove it during their tenure of custodianship.

ok, makes sense to me, tho that leads to predicting how long the client will live. Arborists are called upon to be actuaries at times.:biggrinbounce2:

 

[rebelman]

We have a serious problem here with one hundred year old pecans in a camping area. After numerous close calls over the years, a woman was killed in a tent recently. A forestry consultant told the mayor mulch would cause termites. I told her to call a CA here that I recomend, doubt if she does. Lower branches were removed, I doubt cosideration was given for included bark or crown thinning or reduction. At least collar cuts were made and no spikes were used.

 

[treeseer]

We have a serious problem here with one hundred year old pecans in a camping area. After numerous close calls over the years, a woman was killed in a tent recently. A forestry consultant told the mayor mulch would cause termites. I told her to call a CA here that I recomend, doubt if she does. Lower branches were removed, I doubt cosideration was given for included bark or crown thinning or reduction. At least collar cuts were made and no spikes were used.

Giraffe pruning (raising) increases risk. Termites?

I wonder if the policy will change when the woman's family goes to court.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I wonder if the policy will change when the woman's family goes to court.

Depends on weather they get a consulting arborist as an expert witness.

Probably what will happen is they will cut the big trees down.

 

[treeseer]

Yippee, client just called today and gave a goahead on the estimate (hourly) that i emailed based on apparbo's fine report. I'll be working there tomorrow, will send during and after pics.

i luv working in old trees, buying them many useful years

 

[appalachianarbo]

Yippee, client just called today and gave a goahead on the estimate (hourly) that i emailed based on apparbo's fine report. I'll be working there tomorrow, will send during and after pics.

Cool! Let me know how it turns out. I'm excited to see the pics...

 

[treeseer]

put it off a day; had a consultation this morning that ran long--6' dbh white oak that ate a fence and has a propane tank coming in under the dripline, which a led to a stroll through a 12-acre estate, very nice-- and i decided to hang with the kids instead of sitting in a car on such a beyootiful cool summer day. I'll be there 7 a.m. tomorrow, ready to roll
The old oak had this big canker in the picture where 3 limbs were removed. Do you think the bark on the trunk died from disease the same disease that killed the branches, or do you think living branches were removed, and that starved the bark?

I don't know for sure; I'll climb it in December.

 

[treeseer]

Pecan visit 1

OK went to the broken pecan tree and cut off the damaged portion. Took hours but no more damaged caused to trunk or driveway. Pic 1 is the whole remaining tree that leans toward the house. I have a pretty clear idea of where to reduce it to prevent branch failure onto house but am open to suggestions.



Not sure about cabling the leaning branch back to the upright stem. The fork is U-shaped and does not appear defective. The other issue is the integrity of the upright stem:

Pic 2 is the inside of the trunk below the failure. 2 fruiting bodies deep inside, the black crusty stuff either inonotus or hypoxylon and the white conk hard to ID--similar to ganoderma but no lacquer on top. I could not get big enough hunks out for a good ID but bottom line is there is active and well-established decay that may have broken the barrier into the other half of the tree. not good.

So a tree-to-ground cable is being considered, to run from the top of the tree to a ground anchor across the creek to the right. Thoughts?

The old lightning system is overgrown and obsolete anyway--aluminum? Will be removed and replaced next visit, while climbing to do the reduction pruning.

I looked at the other trees while on site, and pruned many stem girdling roots. The worst were on the purpleleaf plums, pics 3 and 4, which will perform poorly for their short miserable lives unless the roots are corrected. The trees are so deep and the roots so bad they may be beyond fixing.

 

[appalachianarbo]

Yes, the "repair" in the report ref. the lightning protection should have read "replace."

I thought about the guy line. I mentioned it verbally, but worried about aesthetics (but I'd rather have a cable across my yard than a tree on my house). I also worried about clearance over the driveway, but it sounds like you'd install it at an angle that doesn't cross the driveway? The creek runs across the bottom of the yard, right?

Not good news about the fruiting bodies. They're inside the failure wound? Like you said, it will be hard to determine whether they have advanced through the barrier into the other half. If you discovered that they had, would that change your prognosis and mitigation options?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

So a tree-to-ground cable is being considered, to run from the top of the tree to a ground anchor across the creek to the right. Thoughts?

Deadman anchor that is engineered to sustain the loading, at least 2 with a fail-safe design not a failure reduction.

Have you thought of a mast system like Russ C. recommended in his report on the historic tulips poplars?

 

[treeseer]

I thought about the guy line. I mentioned it verbally, but worried about aesthetics (but I'd rather have a cable across my yard than a tree on my house). I also worried about clearance over the driveway, but it sounds like you'd install it at an angle that doesn't cross the driveway? The creek runs across the bottom of the yard, right?

yes and yes, nowhere near the driveway.

Not good news about the fruiting bodies. They're inside the failure wound? Like you said, it will be hard to determine whether they have advanced through the barrier into the other half. If you discovered that they had, would that change your prognosis and mitigation options?

yup the conks are in the heart of the cracked-open stem below the failure point, about at the level of the fork.

sure if i knew how deep the rot was, that would make mitigation a better or worse choice for the client (not me) to decide on. I didn't see an angle to drill from but will take a second look when i return next week.

"Deadman anchor that is engineered to sustain the loading, at least 2 with a fail-safe design not a failure reduction."

yeah i looked across the creek and there is room to dig the holes and bring in concrete. another option i tree-to-tree guys.
why wouldn't one be enough?

"Have you thought of a mast system like Russ C. recommended in his report on the historic tulips poplars?"

Hmm, I remember that talk, let me look thru my notes...but if it involves a modern structure installed in the lawn, that might be an aesthetic deal breaker for this historic estate.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

why wouldn't one be enough?

My 2k mile thinking as to how it loads the tree if there is trunk decay.

Have it guyed at 2 elevations up the trunk. Maybe using a hybrid system with steel cable and synthetic non invasive connection