Historic Willow Oak taken out

[Elmore]

A sad day for many tree lovers here in the Tennessee Valley. A historic Willow Oak was removed because...well because the city of Decatur can't seem to manage large trees effectively.
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/051004/trees.shtml
Also attached is a photo of the tree that I made on 7-17-05. Notice the necrotic limb in the picture. That looks to be minor. It looks like this large tree was manageable. Apparently Decatur did a "George W. Bush" on the communities trees. A limb from another tree fell close to a parks worker so they cut down the largest one in the park. "Operation Decatur Treedom". hah ha ha Oh well...what's done is done but there are a lot of people around the area that are angry over this sudden, un-advertised removal. I'm sure that many in the community would have liked to have some input in the decision of the trees future. I personally am not impressed with the tree program there in Decatur. Since they have brought in a consultant, about ten years or so, I have seen an increase in shoddy tree work. They should change the name of this city to "Topper". What do any of you think? Was this big oak manageable?
They could always replace it with a trouble free Ginkgo...yeah...thats the ticket...a Ginkgo.

 

[Dadatwins]

Sounds like another kneejerk reaction to a solvable problem. Would have to see the tree up close to make a better assessment call but, Operation probably run like most cities and they would rather cut it down than be liable. Sad, unfortunate truth.

 

[darkstar]

who the shuck is is the contractor terry keller ? what a stupid sob..... i spent neary 3000 saving a giant willow oak like that one last year ,..... when will anyone learn a dman thing???? that really got to me .... they are so darn stupid .. simple as that ... the tree looked awesome ... now they are left with a sunbathed park ie skin cancer ....... let the dogs eat ..... sad

 

[darkstar]

Wiiley Rye ???????

 

[Dadatwins]

when will anyone learn a dman thing????

Unfortunately the city probably figured that before another limb fell and they had a lawsuit, removal was the best solution. The problem really is not with the city, it lies with a society of people and eager lawyers that are willing to litigate over the slightest infraction.
I went to recent conference that discussed tree cabling and most of the municipal and county reps say they will remove a tree before putting a cable in it because they were worried that if a failure occurred in a cabled tree, it would appear that they knew about the potential problem yet did not correct it. We have become a society that pays out cash settlements to people that burn themselves with hot coffee, sue fast food companies for making them fat, and pay out millions to 40 year smokers that get lung cancer, that is the sad reality.

 

[treeseer]

Managing risk is possible without a basal cut.

It'd be interesting to know the price they paid for removal, and compare that to the price for maintenance.

 

[Dadatwins]

For an even better laugh, a sad one, look at the backround trees along the path. Look like a row of overgrown Bradford pears along the path just waiting for some rain and wind to start breaking apart. Typical city park

 

[Ax-man]

What a waste that tree had many good years left in it.


Larry

 

[Tree Machine]

I'll do an estimate

Tree just needed some deep Winter tip pruning-verging-on-a-crown-reduction, a series of cables, deadwood, and treat the abscess from the dead stem right there in the middle.

$800 for the pruning and care $600 for the professional cabeling. $1,400 gives this tree a stout, sturdy, cleaned out crown that will be more storm resistant and set for the rest of it's life.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

How many want to bet that the worker who nearly got smacked started making lawsuit noises about the 'trauma' of the near miss, and the arborist was told up front what his recommendation should be?

 

[treeseer]

a lot of people around the area that are angry over this sudden, un-advertised removal. I'm sure that many in the community would have liked to have some input in the decision of the trees future. I personally am not impressed with the tree program there in Decatur. .

Well then, join the tree board. They may let one nonresident in; that or get Decatur residents to get knowledgeable and then get involved.

Town boards and planning committees are typ[ically dominated by people with economic ties to the development industry. the trick is recruiting folks who are in it for the quality of life and not for the money.

Yes liability is a 4-letter word and kneejerk reactions are much easier than thinking. All the more reason to get thoughtful people in on the decisions.

 

[Elmore]

Well then, join the tree board. They may let one nonresident in...

Are there any "French" benefits?

 

[treeseer]

Are there any "French" benefits?

ummm, not sure what this means...you'd have to take that up with consenting community members.

 

[Diesel JD]

Come on now you haven't seen the FedEx commercial about the guy who's always wrong? Back on topic, I don't understand why that tree was not just let alone.... it doesn't seem to have any dead or hazardous limbs. later,
J.D.

 

[spacemule]

Come on guys, trees have finite lives. Your inability to accept the death of a tree makes me wonder what the status of your mental health is regarding your own death. Everything is a cycle. Everything changes. Trying to preserve the past is foolish and not constructive. For life to happen, death must also happen. It's a simple as that.

 

[Diesel JD]

Well yeah I think we all can accept that trees sometimes need to be removed, like when they are dead diseased or you cannot build around them, but this tree was in the middle of a field it looks like...in a park, and not dead diseased or in the way. Why should it have had to come down...what's teh point? It just strikes me as kind of wasteful. Noit to pat myself on teh back too much, but on our property, I have removed the dead, diseased and dangerous trees or we have paid a qualified arborist to do the ones that were out of my league...I then planted native and non harmful imports in teh yard. Two hurricanes last year, and nothing went down except a water oak waaay away from the house. Ithink we all know that they die and sometimes trees must come down, or a lot of these gents would be out of a job! My point is we're all for good tree canopy management...and this looks like an example of when in doubt cut it down.

 

[techdave]

Contractor+pro???

A guy who works in tennies, shorts, a tee shirt, and doesnt own (or use?) a saw bigger than 28 inches to cut down a tree that size? A guy who doesnt know (or care to explain to others) that old oak trees are are often shells-as long as the shell is thick and intact its not much weaker than awhole trunk? A guy who needs a dozer to fell that thing? (maybe I misunderstood where the dozer came in?) A pro?

Of course as others have said, to pass final judgement you gotta be there and see everything, but something seems amiss. PS-nice rush to cutdown without public input.

 

[treeseer]

PS-nice rush to cutdown without public input.

Timing is everything. I've seen treecutting operations on Sunday mornings. It's so much easier to ask forgiveness than permission. Especially when you know you're wrong but you're gonna do it anyway.

It'd make an interesting case if that tree's economic value was appraised and suit brought against the ones who condemned it. Every taxpayer and park user (is that you brad?) could join in on the class action. No, the suit would not likely prevail, but it would make them think harder next time.

Spacemule all I can say is Hee Haw!

 

[trees4est]

The article says "A subsequent inspection by Billy Rye, an arborist and forester contracted by the city, indicated both trees were safety risks" I can't make any judgement about this guy, but I did try looking up his name on the ISA site, he's not listed as a CA. Googling him indicates he's a consulting forester who mostly marks timber.
Whoever that was taking the tree down obviously had absolutely no clue what they were doing.

 

[treeseer]

This I wrote to the reporter. I'll try to ge tthe parks guy's contact and send it to him, too. It's hard to see this nonsense happen without doing something about it.
Mr. Huggins,

Thank you dor covering the story of the old willow oak in the park. Trees add a lot of value as living members of our community, so their life and death are indeed newsworthy. The fact that the tree took such a long time for the big men and their big machines speaks to its strength, and safety. The pictures published along with the article also helped tell the story.

The first picture showed Mr. Keller reaching into a cavity in the heart of the tree. That cavity appears to be at most two feet wide, in a trunk over six feet wide. The hollow was no more than 30% of the trunk's area, while the accepted threshold of safety is 70% hollow. (I have maintained trees safely that were over 90% hollow). Therefore this hollow was not a valid reason for removal.

There appears to be a distinct black line separating the hollowed area from the living wood. This phenomenon is known as compartmentalization, and is a sign that the tree wass in very good vigor for its age. The wood itself appears bright-colored and free of decay. There are no signs of advancing decay, so this was not a reason for removal.

The second photograph shows the standing trunk of the tree, to the primary or "scaffold" branches. The cut ends of these branches are bright-colored and free of decay. Their condition was not a reason for removal. You wrote that "Rye's inspection found four large limbs with significant decay caused by lightning strikes, limbs rubbing together and excessive weight.

1. There was no sign in the limbs or trunk of lightning, which typically rears away strips of bark throughout the tree.
2. Rubbing limbs are often stable, and typically cause surface wounds but little decay. Any decay in rubbing limbs is away from the structual heart of the tree, and therefore not a reason for removal.
3. Excessive weight does not cause decay. It can be a concern on a weakened branch, but easily mitigated by reducing or shortening the limb. It is very doubtful that any branch had to be totally removed to remove the hazard, as Mr. Rye suggested.

Mr. Rye is not a Certified Arborist, which is the entry-level designation in our field. He may be an excellent forester, but judging by the photographs and his statements, he is not qualified to assess the risk posed by urban trees. The photographs indicate that this tree fell victim to the Chicken Little Syndrome, in which people panic because a branch falls. You wrote that "A branch large enough to crush him suddenly fell and barely missed him." Do you actually know how big the branch really was?

The city's job is to maintain its infrastructure. Trees are essential infrastructure and the are easily maintained by routine care, which includes pruning. It is far cheaper for the town to take care of its trees than to remove and replace them.
Any citizens who are upset by the city's action seem to have some justification. If you want more information on the risk assessment of trees, I will be glad to provide it. cv attached