Hole in trunk of healthy pine.

[SLlandscape]

What is an 'ear'?

I've not heard the term applied to trees.

It's that thing attached to the side of your head.

 

[toddstreeservic]

Why was that tree removed? The picture with the butt shows more than enough shell thickness for this tree to be considered safe. If that was the only problem, then this tree wasn't a hazard.

maybe not next to your house!

 

[m.green]

I'm back

Due to the holiday's it's been a while since I've checked this thread and I actually went and finished the storm damage cleanup today and took pictures of the trees in question.

Alright, first things first. If your familiar with the thread then you know that I am seeking advice on a massive, "healthy looking" pine tree that has a huge hole at the bottom of the trunk. The homeowner doesn't want it removed but if it were to go down then he'd better hope he isn't in his home. Here is a link to the three photos to the pine tree. I recommended removal as he has lived there several years and until today he had no idea how the hole got there as it was there when he moved in but the plan is to try and avoid removal. You can clearly tell in the pics that the limb ripped out of the tree as what's left is the base of the limb with a flush cut because it was obviously massive and the previous owner wanted the limb removed from his land. What do you think, stay or go? Keep in mind it has a huge trunk multistemmed with 4 stems all about 40-50 feet tall.

http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/pine1.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/pine2.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/pine3.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/pine4.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/pine5.jpg


This next tree is a willow, looks like it can be saved. After it is cleaned up it will be farely bare and considering the approximate age of the tree it may not grow any new limbs. It isn't within falling distance of anything except ground so it's not a hazard. However, I am not looking for someone to say "Clean it up and let nature take it's course" because this man loves his landscape and if you all don't think it's going to last much longer (and I know it's hard to tell without examining the tree in person) please say so so the man can have us remove it and move on in landscaping that part of his yard again.

http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow1_1.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow1_2.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow1_3.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow1_4.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow1_5.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow1_6.jpg


And last, another willow. I don't see any hope in this and I told the homeowner from my examination that it should be removed. Then, like before he can plant a nice ornamental or even another willow instead of wasting time waiting for nature to kill it. This tree is rough it is amazing how weeping willows take a drastic amount of damage from ice storms then other trees like pine/hemlock/etc...

http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow2_1.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow2_2.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow2_3.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow2_4.jpg
http://www.sacovalleytreeservices.com/ds/willow2_5.jpg


That's it. I know what I have for knowledge and what I have and can recommend. The purpose of me posting here looking for other more experienced Arborist input is so I can 1. Learn, and 2. try to save this man's trees.

Thanks in advance for looking at the photos. Comment on 1, or all. Any input is grateful and like I said; Thanks in advance.

 

[treeseer]

Both willows have severe branch damage but look restorable. Would be high mtc, having you back every couple of years. That is not all bad is it? Starting over is a good idea if the owner does not like willows and you do not like pruning.

The pine hole was caused by the branch tearing out, showing its origin deep in the trunk. The cone is formed by compacted xylem surrounding the pith trail, as noted in Shigo and elsewhere. It'd be a lonnng time rotting enough to destabilize it, and even then the risk could be mitigated by pruning.

But if you already whacked one side of it all that is moot, right?

 

[m.green]

I didn't necessarily whack one side of it I removed the more larger branches so it still looks great but isn't as heavy on the house side.

Let me also add the note that the homeowner has said he watched ants crawling in and out, nesting in the trunk. From previous reference in this thread ants don't do much damage at all. But if that stem ripped out would it make the rest that are on the tree more at risk of doing the same thing or is that just an isolated incident when it occurs?

 

[treeseer]

...if that stem ripped out would it make the rest that are on the tree more at risk of doing the same thing

Perhaps, due to altered biodynamics and new exposure of the remaining limbs. So often the logical thing to do is to reduce sprawling ends, to reduce strain on branch origins and the stem defect.

Glad to hear you left your options open on the pine.

 

[m.green]

The homeowner showed me a picture of his landscape at it's prime mid-spring/early summer and it is gorgeous. He loves the willows. He loves the pine. Thanks for your input.

I just don't want to prune his trees, get payment, then another storm come and damage them to the point where they can't be fixed and he has to pay me to do work that could be done now. He's disabled, I won't presume he has money but I think it would be a bad day for him to get his trees cleaned up and then the following week have them damaged again. But that's mother nature, I can only do my job, do it right and let mother nature take it's course and maybe they will flourish. But yeah, he love's the willow's.

I would never butcher a tree until I have the go ahead and a signed contract stating it is to be removed. Thanks for the compliment.

I am still looking for other opinions on the photos. Don't be hesitant I am experienced but I am alway's looking for more opinions.

 

[D Mc]

M. Green, the willows are not a problem. You should be able to do a good job of removing the storm damaged portions, trimming as necessary to encourage a rebalancing of the crown and the willows will take care of the rest.

You will get substantial amounts of adventitious and dormant bud regrowth but, here again, these are willows. Do not try to correct this immediately. Allow time for compartmentalization and energy stores to replenish within the tree.

You realistically cannot trim any tree to guarantee protection through severe weather events. That is putting too much pressure onto yourself and creating unrealistic expectations. If the homeowner loves his trees as you say, the willows are worth saving.

The pine tree. For all the pictures you took you are missing the one that would be of most interest to me and that is the overall picture of the tree's structure and its form in relation to the house. The pull out on the branch (lower trunk section) is not as worrisome in and of itself but could be a major problem depending on the remaining structure.

Dave

 

[m.green]

Thanks D Mc,

Very informative. I really appreciate that.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Then it's settled, I will reassemble it and put 10' from your kids bedroom.:monkey: Unbelievable.

If you did a professional analysis on the tree instead of a knee jerk reaction, then you could properly determine it's safety. From a target perspective, a tree within striking distance of a house is of no greater importance than a tree sitting next to a parking lot, other building ro even a heavily used intersection. So following that logic, if the tree was safe to be located near one of those other locations, it's ok to be located near the house.

It all has to do with the probability of failure.

Perhaps you should put a 120' concrete safety zone around your house.

Its called doing an objective professional analysis.

 

[m.green]

BC Westcoast,

Was that comment directed to me and advice on questions I've asked? I'd have to say that it is far more important to remove a hazardous tree that is within falling distance of a house then one that is located next to a parking lot.

maybe I missed your point. I'll go over it again.

EDIT: I see now, you are acting as a target for the tree that might fall. Anyhow you should've left the parking lot out. Most of them are empty now-a-days due to the layoffs across the country. Building and busy intersection are good "targets"

 

[Nailsbeats]

If you did a professional analysis on the tree instead of a knee jerk reaction, then you could properly determine it's safety. From a target perspective, a tree within striking distance of a house is of no greater importance than a tree sitting next to a parking lot, other building ro even a heavily used intersection. So following that logic, if the tree was safe to be located near one of those other locations, it's ok to be located near the house.

It all has to do with the probability of failure.

Perhaps you should put a 120' concrete safety zone around your house.

Its called doing an objective professional analysis.

Thanks for nothing. I find it amusing that you set it all up to say that, I mean with your knee jerk comments about my job in the first place. You arrogant tree hugging fools are all the same. Sounds like you could use a good dose of reality, and a little less of your fiction.

 

[treeseer]

BC's sarcasm was unfortunate, but his message was simple--we have the option of either 1 assessing the cause of the client's fear and looking at tree care options, or 2 fueling that fear and selling removals. The first approach gets less work right away but more work in the long run.

That pine's wound was serious, but there were other options that an arborist could have proposed.