Hot Saw technique to reduce the risk of chain shot

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Oregon Engineer

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I viewed a video of a hot saw that broke a chain, which resulted in a chain shot.

(Chain shot is the high velocity separation and ejection of a piece or pieces of cutting chain from the end of a broken hot saw or harvester chain. The chain shot parts travel at supersonic speeds.)

The chain shot part was recovered after it blew through three sheets of steel, five boxes full of cardboard, and came to rest when it hit the side of a chain saw, in a box on a nearby shelf.

Close examination of the video showed the chain broke before hitting the wood. The saw handling technique of the operator caused a large increase in the chain tension before contacting the log. The increased chain tension spread the nose so the chain jammed in the nose and then the chain broke. The high operating speed of the hot saw chain then resulted in a chain shot as the end of the broken chain came back to the drive sprocket whipping the end pieces off the chain.

The operator made a dangerous but very common mistake that I often see on videos posted to this website by other hot saw users.

Simply put:
THE OPERATOR ROTATED THE BAR TIP DOWNWARD WITH THE MOTOR AT FULL SPEED.

I bet that does not sound so dangerous to you! That’s why it is a very common mistake!

There is a dynamic phenomenon that shows up very clearly in mechanized tree harvesters and hot saws. It’s called Coriolis Acceleration and results in a very strong outward force on the chain when the chain is rotating around the bar, AND the operator is rotating the chain saw and bar. The force is so strong it will pull the drive links out of the bar groove along the entire top and bottom of the bar, when the bar tip is rotated downward. The chain will only be contacting at the drive sprocket and bar nose. This results in an enormous increase in chain tension. The faster the chain speed and the faster the bar rotation, the STRONGER the outward force!

The problem technique: Before making a cut, many hot saw operators hold the bar horizontal when the saw is at idle. As the motor is accelerated to full speed the operator cannot prevent the bar tip from rotating up 10 to 30 degrees to the horizontal. Now the operator must force the bar tip downward so the bar is again horizontal before cutting. This is when the Coriolis acceleration pulls the chain totally out of the bar grooves. The chain tension skyrockets, and the chain has no support when it hits the log!

Alternative technique: Determine how many degrees your bar tip rotates up when the saw goes from idle to full speed. Then rotate your bar tip downward that amount while the saw is at idle before cutting. As the motor accelerates to full speed the bar tip will come to a horizontal position just prior to cutting. Then you can lower the bar and chain onto the log without rotating the bar.

If the chain on your hot saw runs in the opposite direction of standard chain saws then you must be careful not to rotate the bar tip up.

Get out your video cameras and have a friend film your cutting technique!!! Look very closely (most digital systems let you play back frame by frame) for how much the bar rotates as the motor comes to speed. If you have old videos then review them watching closely for rotation of the bar tip down and then the chain as it comes out of the groove. I’ll bet you find many cuts where the chain was out of the bar groove as the chain entered the log, not good.

Even a log stand that is TOO HIGH can force you into rotating the bar tip up, to get over the log, and then force you to rotate it downward instead of just lowering it.

Hot saw operators and their spectators are at a high risk of chain shot because the chain is operated far faster (2 or more times faster) and with many times more driving power than standard chain saws. The hot saw operator must pay close attention to many details that the average chain saw operator knows nothing about. Downward bar tip rotation, when the chain is at full speed, is a major technique problem that needs to be eliminated during hot saw cutting.


After you look at your old videos, please tell me what you see.
 
Sorry... I don't follow you. How does the angular momentum of the tip dropping significantly increase chain tension?
 
Not sure I buy the supersonic speed thing, I have pushed chain to a bit over 100 mph (10 tooth sprocket at over 15k) even running a 17 tooth sprocket at 10 or 12k chain speed might only be pushing 200 mph. When things come apart there might be some whiping and parts that get going faster, but I cant see anything jumping the sound barrier, or even getting close.
 
You can hear a whip because the tip accelerates and breaks the sound barrier for a very brief instant. If you can make that happen with your arm, then I'm pretty sure the whipping of a sawchain snapping can break the sound barrier too. When this happens, the whipping breaks off a link or two, which is now travelling at the speed of sound as it breaks free. It is the whipping of the chain when it snaps, combined with the high chain speed to begin with, that allows it to break the sound barrier.
 
Oregon engineer covered this in the post (chain shot gaurd) do a search he even included some slow-mo video along with the explanation on how this happens.

Rotax
 
Lakeside53 said:
Speed of sound 3300MPH... ? I think not... at least not at sea level or anywhere in the inhabitable atmosphere..

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/souspe.html
Well, that makes the case more plausible. You're correct, I checked and the figure I was using was for the speed of sound in water. I'll go back and delete the post since Rotax's link shows the effect of broken chain more conclusively anyway. :)
 
I still don't get where the angle of the bar has anything to do with it and more often than not starting your cut slightly over the top is the fastest way to cut period. Hope somebody can explain this one so atleast I understand it.

Rotax:chainsaw:
 
spacemule said:
Well, that makes the case more plausible. You're correct, I checked and the figure I was using was for the speed of sound in water. I'll go back and delete the post since Rotax's link shows the effect of broken chain more conclusively anyway. :)


Hey, let's try it underwater :cheers:
 
All my video show the chain comming out of the top rail not the bottom. I know this due the fact that on the Predator I had to weld in tool steel on the top rail imeadiatly after the sprocket as this is where the tends to hit the hardest as it finishes its rotation around the sprocket I also have a piece welded in after the roller nose but in all my video the chain rises out the top, not the bottom and it does this while reving up or in the cut. Don't know if any video on this site is of good enough quality to pick this or not.

Rotax
 
I'll accept that the whipping end of a flexible object (chain, whip, etc) can travel quite fast. I accept that chainsaws are dangerous, and that you should not stand in front of them.

However...

To get to a high speed, the end of the chain must have been strong enough to stay attached for some period of time, and then some energy must be lost in breaking free from the main part of the chain.


I'm not saying it's impossible for parts to depart from the saw at high speed. I just don't understand the failure mechansim described.
 
chain whip

You don't understand the Coriolis Acceleration that causes the chain to come out of the rail or is it the whipping action that accelerates the end of the chain and shears the rivets letting the pieces of chain fly that you don't understand.
 
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I don't understand how the actions of the operator in dropping the tip of the saw creates a dramatic increase in chain tension.

Work the numbers if you like. I can't see this operator action having any significant impact on chain tension.

Again, that doesn't mean that dangerous stuff doesn't happen. It just means that this mightn't be the actual failure mechanism.
 
I have felt the gyroscopic effect when changing the position of heavy wheels on grinders. I wonder if this is related. I do feel that since every action has an equal reaction, that if movement of the bars relationship was causing an increase in forces to the chain, then there should be a reaction of equal energy transmitted to the operator, since it is his physical imput that created the action. Lots about this I dont understand.
Oregon engineer: any figures on how much the attainable quick dropping of the tip would add percentage wise to chain tension. I am assuming that the same speed of approach to the log with both handle and tip travelling together, would not result in the same forces. Is this correct.
 
When I was reading the text, I envisioned a chain fall hoist in action. You ever give one end a good yank and watch the loops distort out of their normal vertical orientation? That's what I tink is the precipitating action - the shape distortion. From there it gets a bit hazey, but I'm thinking the theory goes that the chain has to really crank up the velocity to re-enter it's normal "orbit". But, I'm still on my first cup-o-joe today.
 
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