How do I determine load direction?

[Saddle Mander]

I have a number of trees behind my house that Sandy blew down.

The problem (for me) is they are tangled in themselves, suspended off the ground, and the roots are out of the ground.

I cut one today, assuming that the load was pushing down, but I was wrong. After FINALLY getting my bar out of the pinch and re-cutting, the root-side trunk sprang up at least 2 feet.

Clearly, I read the tree wrong.

Is there a method of making some test cuts to see where the load is so I can tell if I should cut from the top down or the bottom up?

 

[lone wolf]

I have a number of trees behind my house that Sandy blew down.

The problem (for me) is they are tangled in themselves, suspended off the ground, and the roots are out of the ground.

I cut one today, assuming that the load was pushing down, but I was wrong. After FINALLY getting my bar out of the pinch and re-cutting, the root-side trunk sprang up at least 2 feet.

Clearly, I read the tree wrong.

Is there a method of making some test cuts to see where the load is so I can tell if I should cut from the top down or the bottom up?

You want to be very careful with multiple trees tangled up and under load. This situation is even challenging for a tree service. If I were you I would not want to try it alone or without good help.

 

[rocketnorton]

imo, the pinch should've told you something... a "feeler" wedge, if cut is deep enough for one can tell you which way it wants to go... im no expert, you hopefully get a better answer than this...

 

[Cfaller]

Cutting blow down like you are describing, with root balls and Jack strawed is a good way to get hurt or killed.

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[bustedup]

There really is no how to my friend it comes with experience and being able to read the situation. The knowledge of compression and tension is key and that again comes with experience. Every situation different.


Multiple windblow are very dangerous if your struggling then honestly you'd be better off seeking a pro faller or experienced arb guy .......less you get yourself badly hurt ......sorry not helpful as such but bro your into a very dangerous gig

 

[hardpan]

Most of the wood I cut is storm damage. It is a dangerous tangle and slow caution is my approach. I use wedges and heavy rope/chain to prevent pinching and limit the swing movement of stressed wood. The hand tools and equipment I bring along may seem ridiculous to some, I don't care and I cut solo. Heavy equipment can help with moving or bracing but I almost never can get it to the work area. Vertical movement as you describe is difficult to hold down. The "feeler gauge" with a bar procedure can tell the stress direction, go real slow and watch the cut closely. Never put a body part above the bar as that is the direction of the basic kick-back also. Be ready for escape but you cannot outrun most snaps or swings. Complacency is your worst enemy.

 

[Saddle Mander]

I appreciate the responses, guys.

This morning I was working on a "V". (I'm sure there's a proper word for it. Two full trees coming out of one root ball.) One tree is pretty much on the ground. The other was about 4 feet in the air. The higher one was resting on another root ball about 30 feet away, with all the branches on the other side of the ball.

I relied on the lower tree to keep the root ball in place. That lower tree is supposed to be my next project, but I admit that I'm gun-shy because I feel like I'm just guessing at the compression/tension.

(Which was the reason for my original post.)

 

[JakeG]

If you start experiencing turbulence while cutting (ie: Your leg starts shaking cause you're nervous), just stop... And get the phone out. That's the only advice I have. The kind of cutting you're doing is beyond me. I'd have to use equipment or a vehicle to pull the blow down into a safer configuration.

The "V" you described. Co-dominant is the term you're looking for, that is, if they are similar in size.

 

[bustedup]

I appreciate the responses, guys.

This morning I was working on a "V". (I'm sure there's a proper word for it. Two full trees coming out of one root ball.) One tree is pretty much on the ground. The other was about 4 feet in the air. The higher one was resting on another root ball about 30 feet away, with all the branches on the other side of the ball.

I relied on the lower tree to keep the root ball in place. That lower tree is supposed to be my next project, but I admit that I'm gun-shy because I feel like I'm just guessing at the compression/tension.

(Which was the reason for my original post.)

The compression/tension is the same principle as it is when bucking .......major difference is you got other things tangled and root plates..........ifn ya gonna do it ya self then I'd start by looking at "guides" that deal with bucking ......that'll give ya the basics on compression/tension.....then ya need to be looking at how ya deal with spring poles ........then how ya release etc the root plate.......then ya need to be looking at the way ya put ya cuts in ie underbuck etc .......I ain't being rude or nothing but how good ya are at handling a saw does come into it ie where ya tip is.....avoiding kickback etc etc ........the length of bar ya using


There a hell of a lot to take into account .....hence why I said it a dangerous gig



Every faller I know don't like working in blow down ......it not a nice day and it can go bad real quick

 

[Saddle Mander]

The "V" you described. Co-dominant is the term you're looking for, that is, if they are similar in size.

Yep. That's it. These trees are "identical twins."

Appreciate the vocabulary lesson.

 

[bustedup]

Also known as a school ma'am

 

[woodchuck357]

You need hands-on help from someone with storm damage experience. Most timber fellers are nearly useless in handling tangles created by storms.

I have worked a lot of storm damage tangles and am very picky about the people I work with in that stuff. Some listen, some know it all, most pro fellers fit in the later category. Experience gained from working with people who have done storm work is the only way to learn to read the forces. Even then there are still surprises in the way trees under multiple stresses react when cut. You are very lucky you only got a stuck saw.

 

[RedFir Down]

To keep from pinching your bar

You probably might already know this...
One thing I do when Im not sure what the tree is going to do whether im cutting up or down is to continually push and pull your saw (3 or 4 inches is enough) in and out of the tree when you think you might get your saw stuck. As you know your bar will really start to "drag" through the wood before it gets stuck.
Its kept me out of trouble countless times!!
Hope this helps.

 

[lone wolf]

Hell we just use 3 or 4 saws, if one gets stuck take the powerhead off and grab another saw! And if anyone is going to say anything like they never get a saw stuck they ain't been cutting long enough and is a liar.

 

[Saddle Mander]

You probably might already know this...
One thing I do when Im not sure what the tree is going to do whether im cutting up or down is to continually push and pull your saw (3 or 4 inches is enough) in and out of the tree when you think you might get your saw stuck. As you know your bar will really start to "drag" through the wood before it gets stuck.
Its kept me out of trouble countless times!!
Hope this helps.

Actually, that helps a lot. Thanks.

 

[Cfaller]

You probably might already know this...
One thing I do when Im not sure what the tree is going to do whether im cutting up or down is to continually push and pull your saw (3 or 4 inches is enough) in and out of the tree when you think you might get your saw stuck. As you know your bar will really start to "drag" through the wood before it gets stuck.
Its kept me out of trouble countless times!!
Hope this helps.

I believe this is called reaming. It works very well when dealing with top bind.

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[Gologit]

Most timber fellers are nearly useless in handling tangles created by storms.

Maybe in your part of the country that's true. You've probably seen quite a few of them and you're obviously not impressed. Ever see any out here? It's a little different deal.

Out here I know I'd rather have a timber faller cutting blowdown than I would anybody else. I've cut in blowdown patches like the ones below and they're no place for a guy who doesn't know exactly what he's doing. To me, that means a good steady going experienced timber faller.
I don't think I'd put some self styled "tree trimmer" into messes like these:

View attachment 314196



View attachment 314197

 

[treeslayer2003]

hate to tell ya but fallers cut blow down all the time, I did a trailer load yesterday.
OP start at the top if it low enuff to safely do so, that will relieve some of the tension. if the stumps allways want to go back down then you want to under cut first then finish on top. if they bben layin a while some time the stump want to fall towards the tree, that is more dangerous imo.
be carefull, everything ya foolin with is much hevier than ya think.

oh, cut any saplings off the root ball, ya be sorry if ya don't.

 

[madhatte]

I'd say that the VAST majority of the cutting I've done has been blowdowns. I'm probably way down from the top of the list as far as expertise goes, but I can still offer a couple of tips. First: whenever possible, if you have multiple binds, work from the small/top end down/back. Not only will it release the tension more slowly and with less drama, it will hit you less hard if you mess up. Second: whenever possible, tuck yourself behind something immovable (like another tree) when you release tensions. That way you have something to take the hit for you if you mess up. Third, pay attention to the pinch; the tree wants to fling in the opposite direction, so don't be there when it does. Finally, if you have to cut something with several binds, you'll likely miss at least one. Try to have cut your way to that spot so that there is a safe place to hide, and an escape route.

 

[rwoods]

Saddle Mander, not a logger so ignore this if you wish but if you are determined to go it alone, you should first have basic bucking knowledge and skills. If you are good there then start with the least dangerous trees and apply the general principles given by the above. Handling storm damaged trees safely is learned more from hands on experience than general theorizing. Nevertheless, misjudging the tension or overlooking another hazard is part and parcel of this kind of cutting. But you must survive each experience to gain the skills. It doesn't take much to kill you and size doesn't always matter. Just a few years back while assisting the county open roads after a tornado, I was side falling a damaged tree and failed to notice a 1" or so sapling under tension. When the tree fell the sapling was released and hit me right between the eyes. It almost knocked me out with a running saw in my hands. It could have easily knocked the saw into me if it had hit the saw. Now take that force and multiply it by the tension of a larger limb or tree and it could easily kill you or break a bone or two. Before the day was out a fellow cutter was bucking the top of a large tree that I had just cut from the root ball. It rolled and broke his foot. He thought I was the one doing all of the dangerous cutting. A costly lesson for him. It could have ended his career as a full-time professional firefighter. Thankfully it didn't, but it did sideline him for weeks.

I took the long way around the barn to say this: if this work is expected to be a one time experience for you then just cut the trees you are sure about and hire out the rest. Ron