How much is TOO much?

[BigJohn]

I'm going to try to quick in explaining what I have to say he. Example: I work with a guy who is into having all the new things. By the time he figures out what he wants to take up the tree with him and set it up I could have been up there half way finished. The other day I took two small hemlocks down and then an ash trunk with a crane and this same guy by this time only had his rope set in the tree and starting to get saddled up. I use the same gear every day. The only big difference is I might put a set of hooks on if I am doing a removal and thats not always. I find sometimes its quicker for me to move around with out them and maybe put them on if I am working a spar down.

I just think some people should stick to the basics and once they master that then slowly incorperate new tools into their system slowly. My coworkers excuse now is that he knows I'll pick up his slack.

Big John

 

[NickfromWI]

I think you're partly right. But there is a fine line between, "mastering what you know" and "remaining stagnant/not advancing."

It is important to always try new things. Pick and choose the one's that work, and get rid of what doesn't.

Actually, I am going through a lot of knew things very recently. A couple weeks ago, a ton of my climbing gear was stolen from my car. I had to work the next day, so have had to improvise a few of the pieces of equipment I use. New friction saver, new climbing hitches, too. A few new things here and there. But now I feel clumsy because it's a lot of "new" things all at once.

Theoretically, he would blast you out of the tree once he got as good with his gear as you are with yours...but there are always exceptions!

love
nick

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by BigJohn
some people should stick to the basics and once they master that then slowly incorperate new tools into their system slowly. My coworkers excuse now is that he knows I'll pick up his slack.

I've had the exact same issue with gearheads who find reasons to use stuff that's not needed on the job but want to use it anyway. If the slack gets way too loose on his end, it may be time to pull out the clock and have a conversation about KISS and getting things done.

Yes new gear can improve efficiency but it needs to be broken in and learned on the gear owner's own clock (or taught to all climbers on company time), and kept in the bag until it's needed so it does not put extra burden on those who KISS.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I've been telling ya'll this all this time.

Zen climbing.

K.I.S.S.

No clanging around in the tree.

 

[TREETX]

More is better

More is better. Knowing when to bring the gear into the tree or even out of the truck is more important.

Think ahead of time about what you really need. Bring it with you.

 

[Matt Follett]

YEP!!!!!!

I'm all for the keep it simple, I like my toys, but they are few... (well some may argue that comment) and learned slowly,... when I teach climbing, I teach basics, because understanding the basics makes you faster with the toys. Reliance on toys means that if something goes wrong, how are you going to do your job?

Once a climber is competent, and understands the basics of moving about then it's time for the re-directs, mechanical assenders, false crothes (cambium savers) set from the ground etc.

Same goes for rigging, a young (read inexperianced) climber can quickly get into trouble with too much gear to call upon, understanding the basics means that when you CAN use 5:1 systems things might not crash into the house. (at least not BIG things)

In our search to do things better we can often find ourselves looking for solutions to problems which were solved long before we even set foot in a tree.

I once attended a talk with Colin Naftel, ( a local climbing Icon) on the issue of 'too many toys' and his opinion was (Colin if you're listening I hope I get this right) If it takes longer to get it into the tree set it up and then go retrieve it... then it would take it apart in pieces it just isn't worth it...

("orrrrr something like that")

The new tools we have gained both from the rock climbing genra (sp?) and our own ingenuity have increased our productivity tree-mendously, however I often muse at the amount of time I spend setting up gear to do something that might take minutes a simpler way (BTW {sorry Sean} Line Tamer... RIP,)

 

[MasterBlaster]

TOO much!

 

[GlennG]

Good God Butch is there a person in all that mess? I have less money tied up in my pickup truck

Glenn Gertis

 

[MasterBlaster]

I dunno, talk to Tom.

He swears by it.

I'm still trying to find the first aid kit in all that.

 

[NickfromWI]

Only too much if you don't know when to use it and (maybe more importantly) when NOT to use it.

love
nick

 

[Tom Dunlap]

MB,

I'm full of beans tonight so here goes

Too much for you maybe. I used that setup for about a week before I tweaked it. There is less in the lanyard setup and it works better. Come to TCI to see the current itteration. Oh, I forgot, it costs to attend. Taking time out of production wouldn't make you any money.

Lets see your saddle, on you, not on the ground.

Then, come on up and climb with me for a day.

Dig the crud out of your eyes, the FA kit is right in front of your nose.

Keep an open mind. Picking and choosing works best. If I need to I can climb on just a rope. No accessory cord or snaps. Would I want to? Nope. But progressive climbers are able to get the job done with many options instead of just one.

It still amazes me to think that anyone can judge a climber by a picture. That pick is on a light day actually. There are times when I bring a little more along. The slings are 5/8" Spectra. lighter and stronger, but cost more, than the one inch stock that most people use. the total weight of my saddle, with all of the gear, is probably less than most saddles. Weaver makes harnesses for horses, and tree workers. They use similar materials for both applications. Does that say something about the market that they're selling to? Don't get me wrong, Weaver makes wonderful saddles that function well at the price point they have aimed for. Ford and Chevrolet make really good cars at their price point too. Would I rather drive a Mercedes? You would too... You would too if they only cost a little more.

How many of you hunt and fish? Do you still use all the same gear that you did ten years ago? Do you upgrade your gear and skills as time goes along? Do you use radar gear for finding fish? How many motors on your boat? I've seen four motors on a fishing boat. To me, thats TOO much! But then again, I don't get fishing. Toss me a nice filet and I'll catch it. That I get

At the end of the week I'll bet that I have more energy left to enjoy time off. Go and read what I wrote to MB in the "Which saddle" thread.

Tom

 

[rborist1]

:Eye:

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I'm trying to figure out what MB means by too much.
Let's see, he has a DEDA lanyard, two carabiners with speedline slings, and a firstaid kit.
Which of those things is too much?

 

[tjk]

I carry one spectra sling for limbs and 2 different redirects, and a few acsesary biners for stowing saw cable gear or rigging equipment.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I don't know where my reply went. Maybe someone ate it.

The black lanyard in the pic is some 7/16" KM III, Currently I'm using some orange 8mm Yale semi static, gym rope. The sheath is a little loose so it's getting boogered up too quick. I think I'll go back to KM III.

Tom

 

[TREETX]

Why do you haul all of that stuff into the tree?

"Stuff" - usually means things you don't know what their use is......

I would rather phrase it as - Why are you bringing those slings? Don't know, leave them on the ground or stay there yourself until you have a climb plan.

Why the 1st aid?? Seems a bit much to me but with Tom being as well trained and versed in FA as he is, it would almost be a crime if he didn't pack it.

I say haul what you need. That may be one climbing line and a short lanyard - just a handsaw. That may also mean 2 climbing lines, no lanyard, a few slings for redirects, a block, and a fist full of biners - maybe an 044 too.

Bring what you need but leave what you don't. More things the better.

I must admit I laugh when I see people loaded for bear and all they are doing is light pruning in a 30ft tree.

Had the flu for 4 days and bronchitis for the last 5. Cabin fever - time to choke down some antibiotics, grab my climbing gear, and pay some bills.

 

[treeslayer]

Originally posted by TREETX




I must admit I laugh when I see people loaded for bear and all they are doing is light pruning in a 30ft tree.

Me too, until I saw Chad Brey in action, he carries a lot, but wow,
Who cares? judge em by production and skill first. If you wear the same stuff all the time, you never have to look for it.

 

[TREETX]

Originally posted by treeslayer
If you wear the same stuff all the time, you never have to look for it.

True to a point but a climber that carries ALL his climbing gear with him in every tree and every job probably doesn't own much gear....

I'm sure your hero even has a few tricks/tools he leaves in the truck.

I find that if you take what you need to complete the job and store the rest of your climbing gear in an orderly fashion, you never have to look for it.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I get loaded up with un-needed stuff sometimes, it doesn't slow me down in a small tree too much. If I have a big tree to trim, and I don't need much, those are the trees where it's important to remove all the "stuff" from my saddle.
If you are going to be climbing out to the tips and picking the smallest deadwood out of huge trees, you don't want to be loaded down with a chainsaw and a bunch of extra gear.
Often times we work around a house and some trees get removed, some get trimmed, some get raised. I sure won't go back to the truck after each tree to make sure I only have the tools for that tree. I just take what will get the whole job done.

Brian teased me once for wearing a 25 foot lanyard on a small tree. You think I'm going to go back to the truck and get a different lanyard for each tree I climb?
I use tools that work for the typical tree I climb. Occasionally I add a few items or take some off, but generally use the same stuff.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by TREETX


I find that if you take what you need to complete the job and store the rest of your climbing gear in an orderly fashion, you never have to look for it.

You are correct, sir!