fearofpavement
Trying them all
Yeah, well my birthday is coming in two weeks. I have a spinner and breaker already. Just send me a 24" bar for the Jonsered...
How small is to small?
- Thread starter clifforion
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Yeah, well my birthday is coming in two weeks. I have a spinner and breaker already. Just send me a 24" bar for the Jonsered...
I don't use my saws as intensely. I like to think of them like a socket set: match up the power head, the bar, and the chain for the task.
Philbert
josh1981
Addicted to ArboristSite
40cc- 16 inch
60cc- 18 inch
70cc- 20 inch
What I've found to be the best
60cc- 18 inch
70cc- 20 inch
What I've found to be the best
Mpbowyer
ArboristSite Operative
Displacement is basically relative to power
Power is the ability to do an amount of work in a given time
If a bigger engine is RPM limited, it can still pull a chain any speed with a different sprocket.
Also a given chain speed can cut as fast as you want if you file the takers down enough.
A saws ability to cut a given cross-sectional area in a given time is only really limited by its horsepower. Bar length, chain speed, and raker height will all need to be figured out to take advantage of the saws power.
Your 441 will bog down fast with a 14" bar if you run it with a 10-pin rim and set the rakers at .080. That doesn't mean it doesn't have enough power to pull a 14" bar.
Power is the ability to do an amount of work in a given time
If a bigger engine is RPM limited, it can still pull a chain any speed with a different sprocket.
Also a given chain speed can cut as fast as you want if you file the takers down enough.
A saws ability to cut a given cross-sectional area in a given time is only really limited by its horsepower. Bar length, chain speed, and raker height will all need to be figured out to take advantage of the saws power.
Your 441 will bog down fast with a 14" bar if you run it with a 10-pin rim and set the rakers at .080. That doesn't mean it doesn't have enough power to pull a 14" bar.
Its never too small if you can handle the weight and want the speed. You just have to gear up and lower the rakers to take advantage of the power.
I slapped a 18" bar on my 046 cuz i have to buck up some firewood. Longer bar just makes me hit dirt faster because its too long for the wood i have. Also you cant dog in if you don't want to cut the log behind it (i have some nice stuff to be milled mixed with the not so nice wood for burning). I take the 026 and 046 and end up cutting everything up with the 046 because its just so much fun looking it go through some soft wood. It doesn't even slow down.
Long bars for easier limbing are BS in more cases than not for the trees around here. I'm not limbing blueberries. Longer bars are heavier and clumsier. There are times its good to have a longer bar for limbing, but more often than not its making you work harder.
I slapped a 18" bar on my 046 cuz i have to buck up some firewood. Longer bar just makes me hit dirt faster because its too long for the wood i have. Also you cant dog in if you don't want to cut the log behind it (i have some nice stuff to be milled mixed with the not so nice wood for burning). I take the 026 and 046 and end up cutting everything up with the 046 because its just so much fun looking it go through some soft wood. It doesn't even slow down.
Long bars for easier limbing are BS in more cases than not for the trees around here. I'm not limbing blueberries. Longer bars are heavier and clumsier. There are times its good to have a longer bar for limbing, but more often than not its making you work harder.
Jan-Sietze
ArboristSite Operative
Mostly I use the 16 "on my Husqvarna 372, and very rarely the 24" inch...
Hmmm. Out here it is usually, how long can I go. Most pros run 460s with 32 inch bars.
For me? I like NOT having my face close to what I'm cutting. I like having my body away. It is a safety thing for me. Anything that keeps you farther away from the tree you are bucking is safer.
For me? I like NOT having my face close to what I'm cutting. I like having my body away. It is a safety thing for me. Anything that keeps you farther away from the tree you are bucking is safer.
When you can't cut the log in half:msp_biggrin:
Someone (I think it was one of our European members ) a few weeks back posted a potential, technical issue with short bars on big saws. I remember it as an interesting comment, but can't find it.
Also, no one has brought up the 'longer bars have longer chain loops with more cutters to get dull slower' yet in this thread.
Philbert
Also, no one has brought up the 'longer bars have longer chain loops with more cutters to get dull slower' yet in this thread.
Philbert
Steve NW WI
Unwanted Riff Raff.
Balance is a factor that's pretty well been overlooked here. Assuming enough saw to run the bar well, one that's fairly well balanced is nicer to use than one that is either nose heavy (bar too long) or tail heavy (bar too short). Tail heavy with a shorter bar is not as noticeable as a nose heavy saw is, to me.
I commonly run 24" on my 70cc (Dolmar 7300), because it works well with the size wood I cut, but if I'm in smaller stuff, I'll switch to the 20" that has a more neutral balance.
But for the original question, shorter bars don't really make sense after you get to the point where the saw pulls it well buried. To get more speed after that, you're looking at (as already mentioned), sprocket changes to get more chain speed, adjusting the chain itself (lowered rakers, maybe change cutting angles, etc.) to remove more wood with each tooth, in order to cut faster.
I commonly run 24" on my 70cc (Dolmar 7300), because it works well with the size wood I cut, but if I'm in smaller stuff, I'll switch to the 20" that has a more neutral balance.
But for the original question, shorter bars don't really make sense after you get to the point where the saw pulls it well buried. To get more speed after that, you're looking at (as already mentioned), sprocket changes to get more chain speed, adjusting the chain itself (lowered rakers, maybe change cutting angles, etc.) to remove more wood with each tooth, in order to cut faster.
o8f150
Tree Freak
title of thread????? ask my wife
tdi-rick
Addicted to ArboristSite
Buggered if I know what that could be as 3120's and 084/088/880's are commonly run with 18" bars here when post ripping.
lambs
Stihl crazy after all these years
The general rule of thumb that has been mentioned here is that the bar length should be 1/3 of the cc displacment of the saw. So a 20" bar on a 60 cc class saw is about right.
I view that more as a maximum. I tend to look at the recommended bars for a saw and go with the shortest. It's a lot more fun because it helps avoid bogging down the saw. And I think at that point all the saws will cut quite well.
I view that more as a maximum. I tend to look at the recommended bars for a saw and go with the shortest. It's a lot more fun because it helps avoid bogging down the saw. And I think at that point all the saws will cut quite well.
confused
ArboristSite Operative
Having only one saw (I'm Joe homeowner that doesn't use his saw for a living its mostly a fun tool I occasionally get to use)
I have a 18", 24", and 36" (novelty item) for my 046
I use 80" of the time the 18" and run full chisel chain and have the rakers filed down a little extra due to having the power there to pull it
I'm debating on adding a 026 (project saw for myself and children to learn how to put together and learn about engines) and would probably put the 18" on the 26 and put the 24 on the 46
I have a 18", 24", and 36" (novelty item) for my 046
I use 80" of the time the 18" and run full chisel chain and have the rakers filed down a little extra due to having the power there to pull it
I'm debating on adding a 026 (project saw for myself and children to learn how to put together and learn about engines) and would probably put the 18" on the 26 and put the 24 on the 46
clifforion
ArboristSite Member
Good comments
Hi guys, and gals. Thank you for all your input. I really didn't have any saw plan or bar size in mind when I was asking, just wanted opinions on how a shorter bar is "that" much faster that is all. You always hear about a longer bar slows the cut and how clumsy they are, I was just wondering opinions on how much faster people thing a shorter bar really is all things being relative. I got some great positive answers by the way thank you!
I got the idea more after I watched the video of the 660 ported vs 460 vs 441 with a 28 bar, and thought...they were all about the same speed cookie cutting or close enough no one really would notice. I usually try for the 3.0 bar length to cc, or like others have said the 1/3 rule, it seems to work pretty well for me overall.
This is an awesome site and has so much great info I have come away with vast knowledge and hope that some of the suggestions I have given have also helped someone.
Thank you all again!
Keith
Hi guys, and gals. Thank you for all your input. I really didn't have any saw plan or bar size in mind when I was asking, just wanted opinions on how a shorter bar is "that" much faster that is all. You always hear about a longer bar slows the cut and how clumsy they are, I was just wondering opinions on how much faster people thing a shorter bar really is all things being relative. I got some great positive answers by the way thank you!
I got the idea more after I watched the video of the 660 ported vs 460 vs 441 with a 28 bar, and thought...they were all about the same speed cookie cutting or close enough no one really would notice. I usually try for the 3.0 bar length to cc, or like others have said the 1/3 rule, it seems to work pretty well for me overall.
This is an awesome site and has so much great info I have come away with vast knowledge and hope that some of the suggestions I have given have also helped someone.
Thank you all again!
Keith
spindrift7mm
Changing the World One Saw at a time !
Westsiiiiiiide---use as long a bar as you can drag thru thru woods,if it gets too heavy put a lighter saw on it ! Carry on.
Tim Carroll
Firewood Hack
I guess I can't see going smaller than a 20" bar on my 7300. The 20" balences nice and gives me the reach I need. I have not tried a 24", I purchased a 28" instead and it is definetly nose heavy. Opinions will vary in the subject but IMHO use the bar that is big enough to get the job done, feels decent on the saw and is within the practical limits of the saw.
