how to "false crotch" a stalk down.

[DR. P. Proteus]

I have on a time or two, using three strand sort of falsed crotched a chunk or two down without using a pulley. You need to leave a small stub(sometimes two at the same height)run the rope around the tree then(this is important)go under its self and over a stub, face cut the chunk tie it off and let it go. If for some reason the stub doesn't catch it, the rope can slid down the tree. But if placed right it doesn't take a big stub, only a few inches for the rope to be guided in. If you go over the rope and not under it your screwed too. It'll lock its self. This is a good Technic to know, but not one you should use often. if done right you can let it run and brake it your self from the tree. Lot of things can go wrong and its hard on rope.

Yeah!

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

If by a couple times you mean 30-50 trees rigging 250lbs pieces 10-12 pieces a tree. Yes the rope will need to be retired after a couple trees. While you seem to be very set against this practice, it is functional when you don't have rigging gear available. The better option is of course to have the rigging gear or to only do trees with lots of crotch's.

As for your talk of Zen, spiritual, and creatures.
"Uh, um, like, uh. What!?"

Stop it dude.

You already mentioned how much fun it is when the whole thing slides down the trunk so your chances of a merit badge is, well, its nil bro nil.

And as far as options go: Well I would say that if you want to do it right then you don't have to many options besides a decent enough block system.

Yer going to push it to far one day, the rope will break, the load will go flying into whatever and whomever.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Stop it dude.

You already mentioned how much fun it is when the whole thing slides down the trunk so your chances of a merit badge is, well, its nil bro nil.

And as far as options go: Well I would say that if you want to do it right then you don't have to many options besides a decent enough block system.

Yer going to push it to far one day, the rope will break, the load will go flying into whatever and whomever.

Yeah, may as well put on your super man suit and run the bull rope thru your D ring on your saddle and hold on.
Jeff

 

[cupar]

Stop it dude.

You already mentioned how much fun it is when the whole thing slides down the trunk so your chances of a merit badge is, well, its nil bro nil.

And as far as options go: Well I would say that if you want to do it right then you don't have to many options besides a decent enough block system.

Yer going to push it to far one day, the rope will break, the load will go flying into whatever and whomever.

okay "dude", I was pointing out that you shouldn't use to heavy a piece for the working load of the rope is reduced, "bro". I don't understand your conflict with me as we're both agreeing that the best method is with rigging gear. However the false crotch method is functional when you don't have access to that gear, or for small pieces that would take alot of time to set-up your rigging gear.

However "When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are." -Proverbs 26:4

So I'm going to end my discussion with you.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Yeah, may as well put on your super man suit and run the bull rope thru your D ring on your saddle and hold on.
Jeff

I suppose the gentlemen has a problem with getting the right tools, I gotta say though I never met an owner that wouldn't at least have some sort of block. The sling? Well we can't expect miracles can we? But usually most were happy to provide... a worthwhile candidate of course.

Most of what I have seen is a new shiny block hanging in the box while dunderheads would rather go burn the rope doing dumb stuff looking at the block like its a rattlesnake or something then them hollering for me to come and help when their thing is exploding then they get mad at me cause I won't help now (much less can) cause we already went through the whole " false crotch" thing and I said I could have no part in it cause it was dangerous and stupid kinda like that " wrap the rope around the tree for friction while we blow out this top" ******** some folks seem to like as well so its not like I don't exactly know what the **** smells like.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

okay "dude", I was pointing out that you shouldn't use to heavy a piece for the working load of the rope is reduced, "bro". I don't understand your conflict with me as we're both agreeing that the best method is with rigging gear. However the false crotch method is functional when you don't have access to that gear, or for small pieces that would take alot of time to set-up your rigging gear.

However "When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are." -Proverbs 26:4

So I'm going to end my discussion with you.

OK! Sounds great! The last part that is. In my mind the " FC" method is NOT functional in any way shape or form. It has no definite guidelines save one: rope on rope. Its unethical. Step up or step out.

" Once you learn to walk you no longer are able to crawl" - DR. P. Proteus circa: today

When was the pulley invented anyway?

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

I have on a time or two, using three strand sort of falsed crotched a chunk or two down without using a pulley. You need to leave a small stub(sometimes two at the same height)run the rope around the tree then(this is important)go under its self and over a stub, face cut the chunk tie it off and let it go. If for some reason the stub doesn't catch it, the rope can slid down the tree. But if placed right it doesn't take a big stub, only a few inches for the rope to be guided in. If you go over the rope and not under it your screwed too. It'll lock its self. This is a good Technic to know, but not one you should use often. if done right you can let it run and brake it your self from the tree. Lot of things can go wrong and its hard on rope.

Yeah, this is what I meant when you had to be a Zen guru to get this to work but that's IS just getting it rigged as that Zen don't always come through when you cut it loose.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

okay "dude", I was pointing out that you shouldn't use to heavy a piece for the working load of the rope is reduced, "bro". I don't understand your conflict with me as we're both agreeing that the best method is with rigging gear. However the false crotch method is functional when you don't have access to that gear, or for small pieces that would take alot of time to set-up your rigging gear.

However "When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are." -Proverbs 26:4

So I'm going to end my discussion with you.

And why do you have to close the conversation? You don't have to foolishly argue with me, you can stop. I even recommended you do! I wish you would. Sure, we're gonna get you all hooked up with a spanking pulley and a sleek split eye so you don't have to swing uncontrolled logs at things anymore, get you looking sharp! Feeling good!

Everybody always wondered how they built The Pyramids, Stonehenge, great sailing ships from before Christ's time. It was pulleys dude.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

I do that method since I don't have to pay for my own rigging ropes and am not supplied with and don't own rigging pulleys. I don't know when or if I'll be able to make a video but if your really interested I can give you a description but it's not the safest way or best way to do it. Yes you can lower it down after, it won't cinch up. I found out the wrong way if you cut a 400lbs + piece you might not have enough friction in your false crotch and it (the false crotch) can slide down the tree a bit before it bites again.

I was getting a flat tire fixed at the shop the other day, there was a lady there who had a broken lug nut on a 4 lug car. They told her it was OK to drive it.


Now I don't know if you can see what you said Cupar but if you can't see how what you said is just like what I said and how they are both completely wrong, contradictory, bound to get someone hurt, then I suggest you buy two pulleys and change yer paradigm in the morning.

 

[beastmaster]

Ok though this isn't a good Technic, and really shouldn't never be done with any thing heavy ever. I went into the laboratory and set up a scale model of my semi-pulley-less false crotch. Knowledge is power and you can teach it to people you don't like. Leave or find a small stub. run the line around the trunk,make sure rope going to catch on that little bit of stub,
also be sure rope is running under the working linesee how it is caught on that little stub, and how it goes under the other line. The weight of the chunk will hold it in place, so long as it falls just right. You could conceivably use a 5/8 rope on a stub that size on a really big tree. Like I said good to know, bad to do. I've only done it with 3 strand rope and haven't done it for many years. But I've done it working by my self. you can control the branch from up in the tree letting it run, I would do one , pull up the other end and use it. then climb down and untie them. Some times you got to do what you got to do.
I have nice shiny pulleys now. their sweet with a cow hitch. We all know leaving stubs will always bit you in the ass at some point, on a removal also.

 

[Peter.s]

what if there is no nub - I was working on a stalk with no nubs and making a notch in the tree was mentioned before I herd forget about it.

I dont plan on using this every day but you never know when it might come in handy...

 

[cupar]

this method is very hard on the rope as I've said before but has worked for me on every load until I got a load I estimate at 450lbs which was 20-22" diameter 8-10' long hard wood (it was a while ago) where the bottom wrap slide about 5'. I compare this method as using all season tires in winter time. People do it constantly but a set of winter's (rigging tools) will do the job alot better. It's worked consistently for me and the other 15 aerials that work monday to friday/saturday 7-5 without incident for years. I've think out of our 10 crews doing residential and city removals there's 2 sets of proper rigging gear which were bought by the person on that crew. 1 set is usually left at home FWIW as our ropes are cheap but our storage space and time isn't.



The is the view from me in the tree. The top knot will usually be 4-6" down from where I topped the tree. Sometimes I'll add a third or fourth wrap if it's a long piece. My cut will be from the left side above the bottom rope and below the second from the top rope.



I'll cut it directly at the camera.



leaving the piece like this where it can be lowered slowly from the ground, adding wraps as necessary for weight.

 

[Pelorus]

Never negative block a broccoli stalk; they are devious little devils.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

what if there is no nub - I was working on a stalk with no nubs and making a notch in the tree was mentioned before I herd forget about it.

I dont plan on using this every day but you never know when it might come in handy...

What happens if there is no nub is that they pretend there is one cause that's all they know then the whole 450 pound ( not counting dynamics) load comes screaming loose.

I have never ever been in a situation where I needed to do this technique in 25 years. Never even crossed my mind. Well it did, then I remember one of the simple yet complex rules about never crossing ropes like that.

It is not in the video that was shown. Why?

There should be a sticky for all you 101'ers to tell you what not to do or even mention. First on the list would be not to take advice from each other.

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

this method is very hard on the rope as I've said before but has worked for me on every load until I got a load I estimate at 450lbs which was 20-22" diameter 8-10' long hard wood (it was a while ago) where the bottom wrap slide about 5'. I compare this method as using all season tires in winter time. People do it constantly but a set of winter's (rigging tools) will do the job alot better. It's worked consistently for me and the other 15 aerials that work monday to friday/saturday 7-5 without incident for years. I've think out of our 10 crews doing residential and city removals there's 2 sets of proper rigging gear which were bought by the person on that crew. 1 set is usually left at home FWIW as our ropes are cheap but our storage space and time isn't.



The is the view from me in the tree. The top knot will usually be 4-6" down from where I topped the tree. Sometimes I'll add a third or fourth wrap if it's a long piece. My cut will be from the left side above the bottom rope and below the second from the top rope.



I'll cut it directly at the camera.



leaving the piece like this where it can be lowered slowly from the ground, adding wraps as necessary for weight.

By the hairs on yer nutsack. Or Zen. I can only imagine its one or the other holding that rigging up.

Dude, bro, you might as well be raping a baby. You have some sick twisted **** going on. City work? Oh boy!

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

Never negative block a broccoli stalk; they are devious little devils.

On a block I will.

 

[cupar]

Another option when you can, and have time to do it is to cut small manageable pieces that you can throw down. This usually means you have a drop zone you can chuck wood to.

 

[no tree to big]

this method is very hard on the rope as I've said before but has worked for me on every load until I got a load I estimate at 450lbs which was 20-22" diameter 8-10' long hard wood (it was a while ago) where the bottom wrap slide about 5'. I compare this method as using all season tires in winter time. People do it constantly but a set of winter's (rigging tools) will do the job alot better. It's worked consistently for me and the other 15 aerials that work monday to friday/saturday 7-5 without incident for years. I've think out of our 10 crews doing residential and city removals there's 2 sets of proper rigging gear which were bought by the person on that crew. 1 set is usually left at home FWIW as our ropes are cheap but our storage space and time isn't.



The is the view from me in the tree. The top knot will usually be 4-6" down from where I topped the tree. Sometimes I'll add a third or fourth wrap if it's a long piece. My cut will be from the left side above the bottom rope and below the second from the top rope.



I'll cut it directly at the camera.



leaving the piece like this where it can be lowered slowly from the ground, adding wraps as necessary for weight.

We have used this method.many times yes hard on ropes mainly only use it on half inch lines cause we have a steady supply of retired climb lines to use but if done as u showed the rope can slide all the way down the spar u need a nub or crotch to hold your bottom wrap. Also u mentioned adding multiple wraps if u have a long piece that is unnecessary one half hitch and a running bowline is enough down low (obviously high enuff and secure enuff it won't slip) I always try and put my bowline above a nub branch or even just a sucker to prevent the piece from sliding out. This method.is virtually useless on smooth perfectly verticle spars

 

[cupar]

We have used this method.many times yes hard on ropes mainly only use it on half inch lines cause we have a steady supply of retired climb lines to use but if done as u showed the rope can slide all the way down the spar u need a nub or crotch to hold your bottom wrap. Also u mentioned adding multiple wraps if u have a long piece that is unnecessary one half hitch and a running bowline is enough down low (obviously high enuff and secure enuff it won't slip) I always try and put my bowline above a nub branch or even just a sucker to prevent the piece from sliding out. This method.is virtually useless on smooth perfectly verticle spars

This was a 5/8 line but we usually use 1/2 as well. I add extra wraps to the top piece when it's long and dead and could break, and then wraps to the bottom to manage weight. The more weight you have on the line the more friction is applied and prevents it from sliding down the trunk, As I said before I've only had it slide once and it was under a very heavy load and only slid 5' before it caught on the trunk again. Don't go trying to explain friction though some people are happy believing it's voodoo or zen or the like. I always prefer using nubs but there are trees that you just don't have that option.

 

[ozzy42]

When I was a much
younger man working for my uncle,we would often hang big tops off the trunk with no block. Sort of the way in the pics above. Unc had a full one inch bull rope. When asked how much tree it would hold,his answer was" whatever you got the balls to cut"
Made my ass pucker more than once.