How would you fall this hanger?

[Ghillie]

I have a couple of pictures of a white pine that broke off in the winds when the tail end of Ike blew through Ohio in September. It's at a 4H Camp I do a lot of volunteer work at.

The Camp Director called me the week after the storm to find out what I could help with. All I could do is tell him is let the volunteers do what they could do safely and leave the "iffy" stuff for me to come down and look at.

I got down there first part of October and took care of some trees stuck in trees over cabins and some other dangerous stuff near footpaths but I did not get time to do this one.

The pine broke about 12 feet up and blew into the crotch of another tree and there it hangs with the butt end of the pine about 4 foot off the ground.

There are no trees in the direction of the lean (call that 12 o'clock), not much to speak of from 12 to 9 o'clock but has a slight lean to 3 o'clock, so 9 is out of the options in my mind.

There is another couple of white pine at about 1:30.

I am interested in hearing thoughts on safely felling this mess. I just went down today and took care of it and I have pictures of the finished job but I would like to hear first impressions.

This picture was taken in October. You can see the spar to the left of the hanger. And a little of the pines at 1:30. This picture is at 12 o'clock by my watch.

This one was taken today at 3 o'clock to the tree. I had already dropped the spar to start clearing a path.

This one was taken today and shows how "stuck" it is. I feel that pulling with the lean to try to get it out will probably damage the base of the co-dominant tree it is stuck in and I don't have enough room to pull with a truck to get it all the way out.

Fire away!

Fred

 

[randyg]

Pictures can be deceiving, yes?

I do quite a bit of this type of volunteer work too. When I'm out in the woods, with plenty of trees around, I look at tree value differently than in someones back yard. The "holding" tree appears to me in the picture to have an undesireable lean, so if coast is clear I would probably notch that leaner and let them both drop together. Maybe tie the butt of that hanger back closer to the holding tree so it doesn't swing out on the way over?

In a back yard, I might try and tie into a nearby tree and piece down the hanger from the top down? Not in the woods though. Gotta keep movin.

 

[Ghillie]

I do quite a bit of this type of volunteer work too. When I'm out in the woods, with plenty of trees around, I look at tree value differently than in someones back yard. The "holding" tree appears to me in the picture to have an undesireable lean, so if coast is clear I would probably notch that leaner and let them both drop together. Maybe tie the butt of that hanger back closer to the holding tree so it doesn't swing out on the way over?

In a back yard, I might try and tie into a nearby tree and piece down the hanger from the top down? Not in the woods though. Gotta keep movin.

I never even thought about tying back the "hanger". It did concern me that the butt would hit the ground and make a bipod and end up falling to 3 o'clock into the trees that were at 1:30 from original position.

I guess I should have said that I usually work with a crane so felling leaners is not high up on my experience list. I have done it but never with a "hanger" suspended, and few and far between.

And yes the "holding" tree IMHO is collateral damage.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I will do several large hangers a year. Often i will tie into an adjacent tree and transfer over to the "collateral".

Sometimes you might want to clean thee end of the hanger so that it ddoens not get driven into the dirt. I usually want to keep as much as possible on the end.

Often flipping in is not a good idea, but using the tail of your climbing line as a drag may help if there is a big swing if you need to let go suddenly.

I might tie the but of the hanger off so that it does not move as I brush the tip out. Usually you wast two to three tiebacks.

Then work the tip down small so it does not change the loads drastically from cut to cut, no shock loading so I can watch the whole mess move.

With eh last cut, I will do a relief on thee compression side, cut the ears and then cut the tension side, watching for twist that may trap the saw.

You need to be aware of your tail and anything else that may get caught in the falling log, and be above the final cut reaching down.

Whenever possible;, I'll do it as a bypass that I can kick or have the ground guys pull on so that I'm out of thee way when it releases.

Worst I've had on the several hundred I've done (lots of basswood and sot maples that break at catsface cankers 30-40ft up) is a bar pinch that bent the 12 incch 020t bar 20*.

 

[ropensaddle]

Many times in this scenario I will set a rope and tie the top
off to the tree it is lodged into or a sufficient one close
by. I then pretension the line and get good wraps. With
the top tied in this manner I will begin blocking the trunk
in small pieces and lowering once it is supported from the
rope. I have done many in this manner but care must be
made in selection of crotch or pulley block location as well
as the possibility of falling debris mitigated etc! The crotch
block location must be able to support the weight of the
tree being loaded on it as well as the rope strength factored
in. The good thing is it should not get shock loaded and if it
is a little heavy your groundy can let it bump to a point the
tied off part is merely being controlled from toppling instead
of being supported. I caution the use of this technique unless
hazards have been mitigated but is very effective on stuck
damaged trees.

 

[ropensaddle]

Ok I will revise my post after looking
at the pics I hate dial-up, anyway
that is stuck pretty good but seems
strong enough to support the load
if their is no worries about where
it flops, I would probably tie into
the butt and get a pull to let it
slip down and then resume my first
suggestion; if it can't be mitigated from
that point after being freed. If there
are in fact targets of a tree gone wild
I would probably combine the first technique
and tie to the butt to shake it free until
the other rope catches it then lower and block!

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Hard to tell from the pics, but it appears to be a multiple removal situation to me.

Do you have access to this area with a pickup?

If so, I'd consider yanking it out with a rope tied off to the butt. Then I'd get rid of the trash trees and clean it up nice and neat.

If no access, I'd fell the tree it is hung up in...carefully. But that's me, I run across these situations at storms all the time. No time for all the riggin on something like this for us.


However, for post storm volunteer work like this where you have plenty of time, I like ropen's or John's ideas.

A Timberjack would fix it nice too..in about 34.6 seconds.

It really kinda hinges on what you want left standing and how the club feels about it.

For me it looks like a nice spot for a couple of trailside picnic tables.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

For me it looks like a nice spot for a couple of trailside picnic tables.

Benches made from half rounds. I often use my Alaskan mill to make slab benches.

 

[windthrown]

I would cut the base of the leaner flush with a chainsaw and tie a chain around the butt and drag it out with the tractor (bucket toward the tree with the chain on a bucket hook) on a 30 foot stretch of chain, with the tractor at an angle to where the tree is lined up on. I have done several like that and it works fairly well.

Without a tractor or 4WD, you could also tie the butt of the tree with a strap or cable and use a come-along tied to another tree base well away from the tree. Then pull the tree base toward you and it will slip out of the other tree and fall. The higher up that you cut the base flush the farther it will have to slip, and the better chance of clearing the tree it is hung in.

 

[Ghillie]

I want to thank all of you for your input.

If I wasn't clear in the first post, I do not fell leaners (or hangers stuck in leaners) very often. The majority of the time I have a crane at my disposal. I am confident in my abilities but I am always willing to learn.

I am sorry the pictures were not better, I did not have posting them in mind when I took them. They were more for the Camp Directors reference on how much damage the winds had done.

I had already decided that pulling it out or over with machinery was not a good idea. The other half of the co-dominant leaner seemed to me to be saveable. The crotch where they joined did not seem strong enough to me to be able to withstand the lateral force of pulling on the pine.

I briefly considered trying to fall the leaner to 3:00 but the lean and the weight of the hanger coupled with the lack of holding wood in the leaner nixed that idea pretty quickly.

I cleaned out an escape path, cut a 4 inch tree out of the mix so it did not effect the fall (the leaner was rubbing up against it, I am not sure you could see it in the pictures) and cut a shallow but wide notch in the 12 o'clock position. Shallow to leave room for a hinge and holding wood when I plunge cut the tree. Narrow with the idea that I wanted the hinge to hold for as long as possible if the whole mess ended up as a bipod when the butt of the hanger hit the ground.

I left the butt untouched with the thinking that the sooner it hit the ground the closer it would be to the leaner and it would resist "bi-poding" and fall as a single unit.

I then plunge cut leaving about 2 inches of hinge and 4-5 inches of holding wood.

After double and triple checking my footing and route of egress, I tripped the holding wood and it all came down exactly like I had hoped.

If there had been a solid tree close by that I could have tied into, I would have spent more time considering the climb. I cannot put my finger on it, but something about climbing the other half of the leaner left more of a knot in my stomache then felling the whole mess did.

I think if I was to do it again, I would tie the butt to the leaner to prevent the possiblity of the "bi-pod".

Again, i appreciate the input and have stored your info in my bag of "tricks"

Here are the pics of the outcome.

The last pic is of the scenery behind this mess. My truck is parked at the edge of a pond and I am standing on a nature trail that has a bird blind and leads to a canoe livery. Great place to get away and "work".

 

[randyg]

NICE

I keep some old junk half inch rope around for stuff like tyin the butt of the hanger to the leaner. When they go down, sometimes much force and siding and twisting goes on and have done premature wear to bull ropes and eye slings as well and regretted it. Chain not recommended since when it breaks the shrapnel can be un-avoidable.

Glad it all went well, and thanks for sharing pics and all.

 

[ropensaddle]

I want to thank all of you for your input.

If I wasn't clear in the first post, I do not fell leaners (or hangers stuck in leaners) very often. The majority of the time I have a crane at my disposal. I am confident in my abilities but I am always willing to learn.

I am sorry the pictures were not better, I did not have posting them in mind when I took them. They were more for the Camp Directors reference on how much damage the winds had done.

I had already decided that pulling it out or over with machinery was not a good idea. The other half of the co-dominant leaner seemed to me to be saveable. The crotch where they joined did not seem strong enough to me to be able to withstand the lateral force of pulling on the pine.

I briefly considered trying to fall the leaner to 3:00 but the lean and the weight of the hanger coupled with the lack of holding wood in the leaner nixed that idea pretty quickly.

I cleaned out an escape path, cut a 4 inch tree out of the mix so it did not effect the fall (the leaner was rubbing up against it, I am not sure you could see it in the pictures) and cut a shallow but wide notch in the 12 o'clock position. Shallow to leave room for a hinge and holding wood when I plunge cut the tree. Narrow with the idea that I wanted the hinge to hold for as long as possible if the whole mess ended up as a bipod when the butt of the hanger hit the ground.

I left the butt untouched with the thinking that the sooner it hit the ground the closer it would be to the leaner and it would resist "bi-poding" and fall as a single unit.

I then plunge cut leaving about 2 inches of hinge and 4-5 inches of holding wood.

After double and triple checking my footing and route of egress, I tripped the holding wood and it all came down exactly like I had hoped.

If there had been a solid tree close by that I could have tied into, I would have spent more time considering the climb. I cannot put my finger on it, but something about climbing the other half of the leaner left more of a knot in my stomache then felling the whole mess did.

I think if I was to do it again, I would tie the butt to the leaner to prevent the possiblity of the "bi-pod".

Again, i appreciate the input and have stored your info in my bag of "tricks"

Here are the pics of the outcome.

The last pic is of the scenery behind this mess. My truck is parked at the edge of a pond and I am standing on a nature trail that has a bird blind and leads to a canoe livery. Great place to get away and "work".

Looks good but all I can say is burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr