Huztl / Farmertec ms 440

[Walnutlvr]

Trying to glean some wisdom here for my build -

I get the "preheated, oven turned off before case halves went in for 10 minutes" part. But what did you preheat to? 250? 225?

Did you put the flywheel side together first and maybe the temps of the pieces got closer together before you put the other side on, making the crankcase screws necessary to get it together? I'm wondering how fast you have to work to take advantage of the heating of crankcase and cooling of crank.

Also, did you get any shipping notices? Or did it just show up 10 days later? I ordered mine 5 days ago and have heard nothing since.

Thank you for posting for those of us who come behind ....

I just heated the bearings with a heat gun till they were 200 degrees, measured with laser temp gun, crank was 25 degrees, pushed it together by hand. The already installed seal looked like it had rolled so pushed back straight with tiny flathead screwdriver. You will still have to center the crank in case, did mine with non maring hammer, measured with feeler gage , large socket backing up one bearing.

 

[CR888]

You know folks hutzl/farmertech offer a 3/4 wrap for this saw & its cheep cheep.....just like the budgy said. Should be around $25-30US.

 

[tbohn]

I compared the 50mm huztl cylinder a piston to an OEM. The chamfer around the ports was more consistent and smoother on the Stihl marked cylinder but the huztl cylinder looked good. The Huztl ports were symmetrical. Some of the Huztl ms660 cylinders did not have perfectly symmetric ports until I fixed them. The inlet port looked slightly larger on the OEM.

When I get my 52mm I will clean up any flashing in the ports, smooth out the chamfer and make sure the ports are symmetrical.

The OEM is darker.

 

[tbohn]

Here are some photos of the ports. The first and third photos are the Huztl cylinder.

 

[tbohn]

Here are the transfer ports. They looked like they were the same size. First one is Huztl. The OEM is used.

 

[cgraham1]

You know folks hutzl/farmertech offer a 3/4 wrap for this saw & its cheep cheep.....just like the budgy said. Should be around $25-30US.

I bought one and I like it, especially the $30 price tag. The two holes where it bolts to the tank didn't line up, but ten seconds with a dremel fixed that.

 

[cgraham1]

There's a local guy on Craigslist who occasionally sells 660s that are 100% AM... for $700 a piece. From the looks of it, he uses a lot of Hutzl parts.

 

[weimedog]

It would amaze me if anyone payed that kind of money for an AM anything. BTW is the Huztl web site down?? Wanted to get a 036 kit, might go back to the "old" way as I did before and just grab a bunch of parts to mix and match into a better than kit saw.

 

[Mac&Homelite]

It would amaze me if anyone payed that kind of money for an AM anything. BTW is the Huztl web site down?? Wanted to get a 036 kit, might go back to the "old" way as I did before and just grab a bunch of parts to mix and match into a better thn kit saw.

I too would be surprised if anyone would pay that price for an aftermarket saw. The Hutzl website is down for me also, however the farmertec.com website does work. I think the 036 kits on farmertec's website are slightly different though, the pictures show that they have flip caps instead of the screw on ones like on hutzl's. Not sure if anything else is different, but that is what I saw so far.

 

[weimedog]

I compared the 50mm huztl cylinder a piston to an OEM. The chamfer around the ports was more consistent and smoother on the Stihl marked cylinder but the huztl cylinder looked good. The Huztl ports were symmetrical. Some of the Huztl ms660 cylinders did not have perfectly symmetric ports until I fixed them. The inlet port looked slightly larger on the OEM.

When I get my 52mm I will clean up any flashing in the ports, smooth out the chamfer and make sure the ports are symmetrical.

The OEM is darker.

See and I thought those off center intake ports were just machining errors...now I see they were just copying OEM! Hoping they UN hack (Must be the damn Russians again!) their website, want to get a 036 kit to mess with. I am old OEM one so maybe instead I'll start there.

 

[weimedog]

I too would be surprised if anyone would pay that price for an aftermarket saw. The Hutzl website is down for me also, however the farmertec.com website does work. I think the 036 kits on farmertec's website are slightly different though, the pictures show that they have flip caps instead of the screw on ones like on hutzl's. Not sure if anything else is different, but that is what I saw so far.

It worked, got one off farmertec's website....this will be the first for me!

 

[tbohn]

I did some measurements on the Huztl and OEM port timing. I don't have a timing wheel yet so I measured the distances from the squish band on the top of the cylinder and converted to degrees. Here is what I measured.

Huztl
Exhaust open = 98 degrees
Transfer open = 117 degrees
Blowdown = 19 degrees
The squish on the 50 mm cylinder that came with the kit was over 0.038" without base gasket.

OEM
Exhaust open = 100 degrees
Transfer open = 116 degrees
Blowdown = 16 degrees
The measurement from the cylinder base to the squish band on the OEM was 0.018" shorter than the Huztl cylinder. This should mean the squish of the OEM would be 0.018" less than Huztl.

 

[tbohn]

A few more issues as I go through the parts.
1. Missing 4mm e-clip for brake linkage. I had one of the two required.
2. The throttle linkage is missing.
3. One of the recoil pawls was broken.
4. Missing av buffer plug. One of the two large ones.
Not big deals but it will delay the build. The quality of the parts are equivalent to the Huztl 660 kits I built...not quite OEM but adequate.

The clutch drum is too big. I think it is from a ms660. Huztl is sending replacements and I sent them photos. Sending photos seems to be required for all claims.
If you don't have patience to wait 3 weeks for replacement parts, working on these kits could be very frustrating! I have a toasted Echo 600P to play with until the replacement parts arrive.

 

[tbohn]

The clutch drum is too big. I think it is from a ms660. Huztl is sending replacements and I sent them photos. Sending photos seems to be required for all claims.
If you don't have patience to wait 3 weeks for replacement parts, working on these kits could be very frustrating! I have a toasted Echo 600P to play with until the replacement parts arrive.

I was wrong. It came with the correct clutch drum it just fits too tight.

 

[weimedog]

I did some measurements on the Huztl and OEM port timing. I don't have a timing wheel yet so I measured the distances from the squish band on the top of the cylinder and converted to degrees. Here is what I measured.

Huztl
Exhaust open = 98 degrees
Transfer open = 117 degrees
Blowdown = 19 degrees
The squish on the 50 mm cylinder that came with the kit was over 0.038" without base gasket.

OEM
Exhaust open = 100 degrees
Transfer open = 116 degrees
Blowdown = 16 degrees
The measurement from the cylinder base to the squish band on the OEM was 0.018" shorter than the Huztl cylinder. This should mean the squish of the OEM would be 0.018" less than Huztl.

If those are accurate numbers, they should run pretty well! DO they also have a "BB" concept for the 044's? A 52mm top end?

 

[tbohn]

If those are accurate numbers, they should run pretty well! DO they also have a "BB" concept for the 044's? A 52mm top end?

Yes, they do have a 52mm. I am waiting for one to arrive to finish the kit (along with the missing peices).

 

[tbohn]

If those are accurate numbers, they should run pretty well! DO they also have a "BB" concept for the 044's? A 52mm top end?

The degree numbers are probably +/- 1.5 degrees based on how accurate I measured the distances from the squish band. I expect my 52mm cylinder any day now. I will measure it's port timing is too.

 

[dswensen]

I preheat the oven to 260f. I leave the clutch side half in the oven while I install the crank in the left side. I then take out the right case halve and put them together.

I got my kit today - everything looks great. I think it's all there, but I will find out as I go.

I am working on getting all the parts set up to put the crank in and the crankcase halves together.

Questions:

I am concerned about having enough time to work with the crank and both halves before the crank warms up too much. I don't think I want to apply gasket sealer and the gasket before I heat the bearing - might burn the gasket or the sealer. I can save some time by not using gasket sealer. Did any of you assemblers not use gasket sealer (like Motoseal) on the halves? Just the bare gasket?

I am also concerned about overheating the halves with the heat gun or the oven. I read that the bearing need to be heated to 250-ish degrees (I have a laser thermometer), but how sensitive are the pre-installed oil seals to this heat?

Thanks in advance

 

[tbohn]

I got my kit today - everything looks great. I think it's all there, but I will find out as I go.

I am working on getting all the parts set up to put the crank in and the crankcase halves together.

Questions:

I am concerned about having enough time to work with the crank and both halves before the crank warms up too much. I don't think I want to apply gasket sealer and the gasket before I heat the bearing - might burn the gasket or the sealer. I can save some time by not using gasket sealer. Did any of you assemblers not use gasket sealer (like Motoseal) on the halves? Just the bare gasket?

I am also concerned about overheating the halves with the heat gun or the oven. I read that the bearing need to be heated to 250-ish degrees (I have a laser thermometer), but how sensitive are the pre-installed oil seals to this heat?

Thanks in advance

This works for me.
I take the left side out of a preheated oven, install the frozen crank, and apply motoseal, then the gasket. Then I apply motoseal to the gasket and assemble the right case half. I rotate the crank as it goes through the pre-installed oil seals. I've done several this way and have not had issues so far.
Most suggest removing the seals first to avoid pinching them. It is also better to check for bearing stress without the seals in place. I knock the crank back and forth a couple of times and then center between the bearings. The crank usually spins easier after doing this.

 

[dswensen]

This works for me.
I take the left side out of a preheated oven, install the frozen crank, and apply motoseal, then the gasket. Then I apply motoseal to the gasket and assemble the right case half. I rotate the crank as it goes through the pre-installed oil seals. I've done several this way and have not had issues so far.
Most suggest removing the seals first to avoid pinching them. It is also better to check for bearing stress without the seals in place. I knock the crank back and forth a couple of times and then center between the bearings. The crank usually spins easier after doing this.

How do you get the seals out without damaging them?

Also, how much time do you take from "crank out of the freezer" to "completing the assembling of the second case half"?