I get to top a tree...

[arbor pro]

No; That's not what I said!

If the customer requests that we do a destructive trimming to a tree, we should be able to do it skillfully with less destruction to the tree than our competitors. If you look at everything I say with a plan to see the only the worst in it, I'm sure that you will generally be successful.:bang:

An extremtly portly man walks into the local clinic. "Hey Doc", I've got a problem. I've gotten too fat. I don't fit in my house. I've outgrown my bed, I dwarf all my furniture and I'm afraid that, if I don't lose some weight fast that I'll have a heart attack. So, how's about cutting off my arms and legs and fifty or so pounds of gut? That'll take off some substantial weight fast and I'm sure I'll look and feel better.

The Doc replies, "Well, I'm a pretty skillful doctor so, how's about we just cut your hands and feet off to start with and maybe start with 20 or 30 lbs of gut? Then we'll liposuction out another 50 pounds of fat and do a tummy tuck to get rid of all the excess skin. It's less destructive than cutting your entire arms and legs off and you'll still get the results you're looking for...


...a slow and agonizing death".

 

[pdqdl]

You mean those competitors that are not ISA certified? How is performing tree topping in compliance with accepted professional standards?

It isn't. Point taken.

Look, maybe not everyone. Maybe not even the majority but many here do practice science based arboriculture. You have to expect some disagreement when you start a thread about whoring out your services as an arborist to top a tree. Your Justification seems to be because you want the money and you will somehow be able to top this tree more "skillfully" than the other guys.

Y'er right. I was definitely putting my neck out on the chopping block and daring everybody to take a whack at me.

I can see how you might think this after our latest go round with turf vs tree in another thread but I respect your knowledge. Always have. Especially your thoughts on soil fertility. This has not stopped me from disagreeing with you from time to time, though. This is one of those rare times.

Ok. I'll take my whipping. I'm afraid I don't have a single snappy comeback in my defense. The only defense that I have in this thread is that in the end, we neither quoted nor did we try to sell any tree topping. :sword:

If the customer had stood their ground and insisted on it...yep. I'm a tramp; have chainsaw, will cut where requested.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Wasn't gonna post, but, nope, would not do it it. If you can be bought, you can be sold.
Jeff

 

[sgreanbeans]

. If you can be bought, you can be sold.
Jeff

Awesome!
Gonna put that one in my pocket! Save it for later!!

Meet with an older couple 2 days ago, wanted me to top a Cherry, told them nope, explained why I cannot not do it.
They where very nice and I thought I convinced them to just a light pruning, yesterday they had it topped! Guy did a great job too! 2 big sticks in the wind, each with a little branch with 1-3 leafs

 

[pdqdl]

... If you can be bought, you can be sold.
Jeff

I'm not sure what that means, Jeff. Are you trying to tell us that if we do what our customers ask us to (bought), that we can be replaced by them (sold) ?

All you guys that will only do your variety of arboriculture remind me of a true story that happened to me many years ago. Since we are all selling personal services for money, we are all prostitutes after a fashion.

Here goes:

I was driving an over-the-road semi in the early 80's, and was stranded waiting for a load in Texas, near the Mexican border. I met several other truck drivers in similar straits, and we decided to cross the border and go to "Boys Town", the Mexican red light district. Unknown to me at the time we embarked on this venture, the other two truck drivers were looking for prostitutes. I was a bit new to the concept of "Boys Town", and didn't know what I was getting into.

One of the guys was trying to remain faithful to his wife, and only wanted oral satisfaction dizzy. It turned out that the hooker he selected that evening was remaining faithful to her husband! While conventional intercourse was ok in her book, she was unable to provide any oral services because she considered that an unacceptable activity; she wouldn't lower her standards to meet that kind of service request. So...the customer choked her by the neck until she returned the unearned service fee.

In the end, the service provider was considered a poor vendor of services, and the customer would not consider using that vendor again, only because the customer was seeking a service that was not provided by the vendor. Any consideration that the service provider had good integrity by sticking to her standards was completely lost on the customer.

Sound familiar guys?

 

[arbor pro]

I'm not sure what that means, Jeff. Are you trying to tell us that if we do what our customers ask us to (bought), that we can be replaced by them (sold) ?

All you guys that will only do your variety of arboriculture remind me of a true story that happened to me many years ago. Since we are all selling personal services for money, we are all prostitutes after a fashion.

Here goes:

I was driving an over-the-road semi in the early 80's, and was stranded waiting for a load in Texas, near the Mexican border. I met several other truck drivers in similar straits, and we decided to cross the border and go to "Boys Town", the Mexican red light district. Unknown to me at the time we embarked on this venture, the other two truck drivers were looking for prostitutes. I was a bit new to the concept of "Boys Town", and didn't know what I was getting into.

One of the guys was trying to remain faithful to his wife, and only wanted oral satisfaction dizzy. It turned out that the hooker he selected that evening was remaining faithful to her husband! While conventional intercourse was ok in her book, she was unable to provide any oral services because she considered that an unacceptable activity; she wouldn't lower her standards to meet that kind of service request. So...the customer choked her by the neck until she returned the unearned service fee.

In the end, the service provider was considered a poor vendor of services, and the customer would not consider using that vendor again, only because the customer was seeking a service that was not provided by the vendor. Any consideration that the service provider had good integrity by sticking to her standards was completely lost on the customer.

Sound familiar guys?

Seriously? You're going to compare professional arborists to prostitutes? Apparently, you don't understand what a professional arborist is. A tree hack may be a good comparison to a prostitute - each will do just about anything for money. However, the difference between the two is that even a prostitute has some moral standards. Tree hacks....well?

 

[pdqdl]

I'm sure that the hooker in my little saga felt unfairly treated by the customer, also. She stuck to her professional standards, and it isn't her fault that the ignorant customer didn't properly know how male problems were supposed to be reduced. Stupid customers!

Puts a whole new meaning onto "crown reduction", doesn't it?

 

[Rftreeman]

when it comes to topping, there's the ones that will do it and talk about it then you have the ones that will do it and call it crown reduction..........lol......

 

[mr. holden wood]

when it comes to topping, there's the ones that will do it and talk about it then you have the ones that will do it and call it crown reduction..........lol......

Hacks like you spike a third of the way up a tree and start slashing, pure topping. Sound familiar?
I pull up to the job site asses the tree, break out the big shot, srt to the crown and start subordinating the branches to solid laterals. Crown reduction is one of the most challenging aspect of my job. Im tired of you minimizing this important part of tree work just because you are either to lazy to perform proper tree care or lack the skills to do so.
You justify your ####ty work practices with the motto of "If i don't do it someone else will" post after post.. How about putting in the time to learn about what crown reduction really entails? Ask a few questions were here to help.

 

[TrillPhil]

Imagine if for once in the history of Bradford Pears one actually had structural pruning done from a young age. Has anyone out there seen one with a centralized leader?

Did pdqdl ever say the tree to be topped was a Bradford Pear?

I have... didnt look like a bradford pear was very tall for a bradford atleast 30ft and spindly looked as though it had never been pruned... We weren't there for the bradford but some rather large sugar maples with dead wood over the house.


People have been tearing #### up to suit their needs, just about, since day one. Is it tacky, yes, is it a liability, yes, are there better ways to do it, yes... but the fact is the majority of people want to go with the cheapest service. Very often I try to give a synopsis of why doing something would not be in the best interest of the tree and more harmful 5-10 years from now and am met with crazy looks and lack of attention after 15-30 seconds.

As stated in another thread, not everyone knows the intricacies of tree work however everyone knows neat and tidy.

 

[mattfr12]

You justify your ####ty work practices with the motto of "If i don't do it someone else will" post after post.. How about putting in the time to learn about what crown reduction really entails? Ask a few questions were here to help.

Thier are those that are gonna get paid and those that are not. sure everyone would always love to work to ANSI standards and all that great stuff, but its just not real world thinking. Alot of the time the H/O already knows whats best for thier tree and you might aswell leave your arborist card at home because they could care less what you think and want it done thier way.

and if you pass on jobs that your letting someone else do your just shooting yourself in the foot. hew doesnt like money.

The first words out of my mouth after someone says toping is that i cannot garuntee how the tree will turn out if it will rot or if it will even live. it is flat out bad for your tree. its even in our contract that we are not held liable for tree death after topping.

anytime your cutting back major leads of any tree even if your going back to laterals it is still bad for your tree. thats just a fancy way of toping.

 

[mattfr12]

when it comes to topping, there's the ones that will do it and talk about it then you have the ones that will do it and call it crown reduction..........lol......

 

[pdqdl]

I consider a true crown reduction to be the better alternative to something much worse for the tree...

R E M O V A L !

If the customer is unwilling to accept the behemoth hovering over their house, you only get two choices: remove the tree, or remove the offending branches. If that can be done properly, even ANSI says that we get to take it down to size. I generally recommend a gradual process, rather than "fancy-named" topping.

 

[mr. holden wood]

anytime your cutting back major leads of any tree even if your going back to laterals it is still bad for your tree. thats just a fancy way of toping.[/QUOTE]

Crown reduction doesn't involve cutting back major leads, thats topping. You don't need to justify your ####ty work to me. Your crap work creates yearly corrective pruning for me and tons of other legitimate arborists..

 

[Rftreeman]

hacks like me

Hacks like you spike a third of the way up a tree and start slashing, pure topping. Sound familiar?
I pull up to the job site asses the tree, break out the big shot, srt to the crown and start subordinating the branches to solid laterals. Crown reduction is one of the most challenging aspect of my job. Im tired of you minimizing this important part of tree work just because you are either to lazy to perform proper tree care or lack the skills to do so.
You justify your ####ty work practices with the motto of "If i don't do it someone else will" post after post.. How about putting in the time to learn about what crown reduction really entails? Ask a few questions were here to help.

lmao.....I'm sorry but who the #### are you, you don't know #### about me or my work, I was probably climbing without hooks before you could wipe you own ass but today, I don't climb #### unless I have too cause I have it like that, my hired climber does it for me and while you're getting out the big shot (yeah, I got one to) I'm already setting the line by hand and when I'm done the tree (which would impress you) looks good, the client is happy and so is my bank account...as for asking questions from you, the only thing I can learn from you is how to get my panties in a wad and cry like a little ##### because joe blow topped a tree and got paid good money to do it......

 

[Rftreeman]

Crown reduction doesn't involve cutting back major leads, thats topping. You don't need to justify your ####ty work to me. Your crap work creates yearly corrective pruning for me and tons of other legitimate arborists..

no it doesn't, they will continue to call me back to do a "crown reduction" because you will refuse to do what they want and I'll get paid again while you spend the day un-wading your panties...

 

[Rftreeman]

I consider a true crown reduction to be the better alternative to something much worse for the tree...

R E M O V A L !

If the customer is unwilling to accept the behemoth hovering over their house, you only get two choices: remove the tree, or remove the offending branches. If that can be done properly, even ANSI says that we get to take it down to size. I generally recommend a gradual process, rather than "fancy-named" topping.

90% of the time I end up selling removal and replanting something that will mature at a shorter height because most of the time the reason for "crown reduction" is the fear of the height of the tree.....

 

[ozzy42]

I ''crown reduced '' two trees today.
Reduced them to a height apr.8 in below ground level.

 

[sgreanbeans]

This is ArboristSite right?
If y'all wanna argue with us about topping tree's.
Then why are you here?
Too piss us off I guess.
If you top, you suck. PERIOD.
You need to go to HackerSite.Com and leave this site, because, really! you don't belong here!
You guys talk about how your making money while we, who don't top are sitting on the sidelines watching you "laugh all the way to the bank" you say,Get real,they choose topping because they obviously cant afford a pro, so that is why they hire you. I have many, MANY things to stress about, but a few things I NEVER stress about are, my money, my reputation, and my conscience. All the little stars under your names don't mean jacks#@t
when you do the ultimate sin of my industry, get out and go away, so the real Arborist can keep learning more about how to care for tree's, not murder them. Remember, It does not matter the justification that you make up.
IF YOU TOP, YOU SUCK
end of story

 

[jefflovstrom]

:agree2:
Jeff