I need a rig

[KentuckySawyer]

I'm looking at buying a truck and chipper for my small business. I found an 88 F450 with a 7.3L non PowerStroke, and a Arbortec box. Also considering a Vermeer 1230 w/640 hours on a 85hp Perkins. I'm familiar with the mechanics of these two machines, but I'm unsure of the pulling power of the Ford's engine. Especially loaded with tools and chips. Theres a landscaper who I've been subing all my chipping to (at $55/man hour) with a mid 80's Asplundh truck and a BC1000 Vermeer, so I could still use him on bigger removals. Just looking for feedback.

 

[topnotchtree]

Be wary of that old Ford diesel. They are not nearly as dependable as the newer powerstrokes. I have an older f350 with a stake bed that dumps. I built 2 foot permanent sides and a removable plywood chip box. This way I can chip into it, and remove the chip box to haul topsoil or other stuff if needed. Just an idea to think about.

 

[Stumper]

Hm...That "old ford diesel" is an International (Navistar) design that is well proven. The Horsepower output is lower than the turbo versions but it has an excellent longevity and dependibility record. The important questions are "What transmission." and "What differential is in that truck". Sounds like a great rig to me. That Vermeer 1230 is quite a chipper.

 

[xander9727]

Transmission is a very important question. The early E4OD transmissions are junk. You can do the updates but they are costly and it still is a mediocre transmission at best. If it has a C-6 you are good to go. You can add a banks turbo to that engine and it will pull what ever you want.....and then some.

 

[Pacific]

Nothing wrong with the old IDIs its what powers my 89 F-450 its slower than a turtle but it starts and runs good it also belches a little blue too. The first thing you do is get some coolant test strips the ones that test if you have the cavitation additive in the coolant. If you ask the owner and ask them has the SCAs ever been kept up if they give you a blank stare beware.

The big problem with the old 7.3 IDI is cavitation of the cylinder walls which in turn creates a pin hole in #8 cylinder causes the the engine to hydrolock.
To replace a IDI engine with a complete rebuilt will cost you 7000 dollars so its something to keep in mind.

Would I buy another 7.3 IDI yes I would only if it had coolant records and other maintanace records for the engine.

The fuel mileage will not be that great you will see around 11mpg tops you can expect that these trucks are heavy plus you have 5:13 diff gears. The truck will top out at 62mph you can go slightly faster but the engine will be pegged.

Good luck with the truck if you buy it. If the truck has a chipper and a dump box on it the truck must be the LWB truck you can get. My truck has a 161wb with a 12' deck.

 

[NeTree]

Now how can ya top that?

Excellent post Pacific!

 

[Madsaw]

I am not to sure but in 88 Ford was only useing the 6.9 in there trucks. But, I am not sure if they ran the 7.3 in the 450 ones. There is alot that can be done to a 7.3 to make it wake up. I have a 91 with E4OD in it, 4.11 gears and 4 wd. Used it to haul cttle home this fall. 7 by 27 goose neck cattle trailer. Had 10 head in there and the lites average weight of the bunch may have been about 1000lbs. Had all kinds of nuts to pull it. Went up the hills real good to. But, the bad thing was I have a bunch of white dairy cattle now. Donew scared them white bring them home so fast. By far my area here in southern wiscon is not very flat. So, I am very happy with the way it pulls.
Here is a link to a pre power stroke page that might just gove you a few ideas on to wake it up. My pump has been tuned up and time chnaged before I got it. Also K&N filter and big exhaust.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=117

 

[P_woozel]

A 450 with a dump box full of chips pulling a 1230 Vermeer is a tad overloaded. I had a 3500hd with a dump box the box and hoist alone had me at 1100#, add 5-6 yds of chips at 400#/yd and you can see the issue. Many disagree with me on this but overloaded is overloaded. I wouldnt pull anything behind the truck heavier than 2500#.

 

[spacemule]

A 450 with a dump box full of chips pulling a 1230 Vermeer is a tad overloaded. I had a 3500hd with a dump box the box and hoist alone had me at 1100#, add 5-6 yds of chips at 400#/yd and you can see the issue. Many disagree with me on this but overloaded is overloaded. I wouldnt pull anything behind the truck heavier than 2500#.

2500# is nothing for an f-350. I routinely hauled 1 ton of cattle breeder cubes on mine, and one ton would only squat the suspension about 1 inch. I had an '88 model 4x4 with a 460 for several years, and routinely pulled a jd 450 dozer with the 4 in 1 bucket. Weight for this tractor was 16,000#, plus the weight of the trailer was 4,800#. So, 20,800 lbs. and I had no issues. I did have the vacuum over hydraulic brakes on the trailer. The 7.3 also has an excellent reputation for longevity. My brother in law had an 89 model with 400,000 miles on it, no major problems other than the starter and being cold blooded and hard to start when the weather was below 35 degrees. New glow plugs would have helped--the Fords are highly dependent on the glow plugs. They don't have the pep of their gas counterparts, but if you're pulling, pep isn't what you need--you need lugging power.

 

[P_woozel]

Spacemule, I mean pulling 2500# when loaded with 3500# on the axle chipbox+5/yds chips pulling a 2500# machine is overloaded and I dont feel so mujch about the pulling, my Powerstroke will move most houses offf their foundations, its the stopping with the stock brakwes and the decrease in handling without a couple grand spent in suspension mods. :blob5:

 

[spacemule]

Gotcha. My mention of pulling was in response to the original posters concern about the ability of the 7.3 International.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Thanks for all the insights. I'm wondering if I should go with a full sized tree truck instead of trying to keep things on the smaller size. Whould a newer F450 with the PowerStroke be much better than the 7.3 IDI for handling the full chip box and chipper load?

Some other fodder for conversation:
Sellers are firm at $6,000 for the 88 F450 (good condition), and $11,500 for the Vermeer 1230 (also in good shape).
Also consider a 94 F450 PowerStroke 5spd for $10,400. This truck has a snow plow (which I'm unsure about- stess on trans and frame) and I would have to fabricate a top and add under bed boxes for tool storage.

 

[xander9727]

Plowing is really hard on a vehicle. Especially in our area where they use salt on the roads. Make sure you factor in what the boxes and top will cost. If you do mostly smaller removals and pruning a f450 will haul enough for you. If you do large pruning or removal jobs you'll want a larger truck. Nothing will cut into your profits more than having to stop work and dump the truck.

My $.02.........as usual.

 

[NeTree]

One thing to keep in mind is space... as in, the amount of space you have to set the vehicle up on the job. I do most things with an F350, and find it tends to fit in some spots where the L7000 simply wouldn't; not to mention ease of maneuvering, being able to park on a lawn if need be... etc etc.

 

[Stumper]

Erik, Good point. Tod's has merit too. In my case I am almost always withing 15minutes drive of free dumping. I would be fine with a F350 with dumping chipbox- on some jobs it would provide easier access. A one ton was what I was looking for when I stumbled into The International with Mancab and 12'chip box.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Well I bought the Vermeer, so now the truck...

Tomorrow I'm going to look at a 86 International 1654 w/forestry body. The truck has a manual trans and a 6.9 IDI (same engine as my 86 F250). The GVWR is 20,500 so I'll be good pulling the chipper, chips, and tools. I wonder about the engine's ability to move that weight though. The seller is asking $4500, so I could consider adding a turbo if it turns out to be needed.

As far as fitting it into a tight spot, I can't imagine the footprints are that different between a F450 and the 1654. Namely in the width of the truck as it would relate to accessing a narrow driveway.

Capacity of the chip box matters since turn around time for dumping is an issue for me. I do enough removals and crane jobs for this to be worth considering.

Thanks again for all the input, fellas. I really appreciate it.

 

[NeTree]

Kentucky, sounds like you need the capacity. I'm fortunate in that I also am never very far from a free dump site. I do mostly removals (lately).

I wasn't thinking footprint so much as height, wheelbase and turning radius.

With a 20,500 gvwr, you should be able to haul PLENTY of chips, gear, etc.

 

[Stumper]

And the engine will move that 1654 just fine-it just won't move it fast. Mine has the 7.3 litre. Shiftpoint for fourth gear on the 5 speed is 20-25mph.-No problem with getting going it just isn't cruisin at high speed. At 35-38 it is time for 5th which is overdrive. 60mph is wrapped.

 

[xander9727]

As you hire employees you'll appreciate that the truck is slow. The last thing you need is 30000# moving 85 mph with an inexperienced driver.
Erik,
I agree that there are a lot of advantages to smaller trucks. I have a one ton and two internationals. I started with the one ton and in retrospect would have been better suited having the larger truck first. I really think you need big and small trucks but if I could only have one I have a large one.......I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Peace out.

 

[bottlefed89]

I agree with xander, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.... I was gonna look for another one-ton, but I think I'll hold out for a international with a flatbed dump, and then build a chip box. I would use the truck for some landscaping jobs also, so I'd want the flatbed ability, I also haul for hire some and that would be nice to have. So.... if anyone ever sees a flatbed crewcab 4700, or 4900 with a dt466e let me know.