i thought my estimate was low........

[ropensaddle]

Is there any middle ground here? I have seen the half million dollar brigade of arborist trucks and the 2 men/1 pick up deal. I have a C70 dump that I blow chips into, a chipper and an F350 crew cab that tows an enclosed trailer. Trailer houses all the saws, rakes, rigging equipment, backpack blower, and other necessary things. Hopefully it will house a stump grinder this year as well. I do try to price a bit lower as I have no vehicle or equipment payments but I'm not working to cover wages and loaning my equipment out for free.

Well really your price is your price but if known as cheap you will always work cheap! Of course market sets price usually however with folks stuck in 1980 or just wanting beer money that market is flawed. I didn't get in the business to risk all for peanuts but the market now almost demands it!

 

[woodchuck357]

I have not worked for anyone else in ages, always had to part ways when they wanted to cut corners or put me with a lazy know-it-all as a helper. The last one was almost 40 years ago. Work when and where I want or am needed. Used to price my time at $75 an hour, equipment at $50, paid helpers $10. Now days me $50, equipment $30, helpers $20, I move slower and more carefully, and can't lift as much. And I rest more and often.

Can't claim to be rich, but don't owe a dime, don't want anything I don't have. No Worries!

 

[ropensaddle]

I have not worked for anyone else in ages, always had to part ways when they wanted to cut corners or put me with a lazy know-it-all as a helper. The last one was almost 40 years ago. Work when and where I want or am needed. Used to price my time at $75 an hour, equipment at $50, paid helpers $10. Now days me $50, equipment $30, helpers $20, I move slower and more carefully, and can't lift as much. And I rest more and often.

Can't claim to be rich, but don't owe a dime, don't want anything I don't have. No Worries!

I see, the not owe a dime is a great idea but that has no bearing on prices because for instance my bucket gets work done more efficient. For example lets say 30" pine needing lowered, cleaned up and stump ground 750.00 now, was 1k easy before all the unemployed bought a poulan. Lets say you would do it for 400 it's a day with no equipment or there about or maybe you actually bid it 750.00 with my bucket and skid I bang it out in 5 hrs and on to next. Point being more efficient can mean more $ Now then we come to the trimming parameter are you abiding by accepted practices in Anzi or are you good ole boy trained ? Do you know growth rates ,water infiltration rates, node, inter node,phototropism role in proper pruning ? structure pruning,topiary's,pleeching, etc. It's a way to separate you from the crowd of toppers etc. I'm not saying you don't please understand but just saying price should reflect to professional standards!

 

[miko0618]

customers with no experience with a service will go with a big name just because they believe they will stand behind the work. some will go with a higher bid because they don't want shortcuts. some will go in the middle. some will go with the cheapest. and some will never do it at all. that's just how it is.

 

[old_soul]

Sometimes the wife changes her husband's mind for him. A while back a fellow called, I stopped by, gave a quote for a simple take down, we agreed to do it next day. I showed up with a single helper, pickup, trailer, and saws. His wife took one look and said no way, she wanted it done right and we couldn't do it with what we had.
A week later, dude calls back, says a neighbor recommended me to fix his fence. I stop by and find the 5 man crew that she hired, with three trucks including bucket, ruined 2 flower beds, and messed up his privacy fence. Being good guys, they cut $250 off the bill to cover the damage. Could I fix the fence for half that? Sure, I could, when I get around to it. That was almost what I would have charged for dropping and cleaning up the tree--without doing the damage. I didn't ask what the other guys charged, but he did tell me they took 3 hours to do a job I would have done with one helper in less than two.

I think I have been called to do all tree work in that neighborhood since.

All crews are not like that, some are very professional. After we clean up you can't even tell we were there.

Even though its bad to "bring 3 trucks out" like you were implying. Well too bad, maybe its a busy day and all the trucks are needed for the next job. Maybe each truck has its purpose on the job. Maybe they feel like using the machine to load wood. or stump grindings

I know I'm not going to load wood by hand into a pickup truck just because the cheapazz homeowner doesn't want to pay for a real tree crew to do it. You can't compare an operation like that to some guy running around in a pickup truck cutting the "easy" ones down

Rope is right, all this kind of b.s. has really ruined this business. I can't count how many people have asked me if I would cut down a tree "just for the wood" in the last few years! And they are dead serious too. Bidding, dealing with people is by far, the worst part of this job.

Go and watch a good crew sometime, who has worked together awhile, and has the proper equipment, and see how much work gets done in a very short amount of time. You might be surprised in that "3 hours"

Sorry, rant over

 

[Goose IBEW]

I will get there. I do know that I am not content working without the right equipment. Having money to grow your buisness should be built into your bids.

 

[stltreedr]

I think some of you on both sides are ignoring one of the key principles of any business and economics for that matter. It doesn't matter what your EXPENSES are. If that were the case, you would lower your price if you paid off a piece of equipment or if you hired a worker for a lower wage than the last. You should always try to keep your expenses as low as possible. You should set your prices according to the MARKET price.

If you feel you are superior to the market, you have built a reputation, you can charge a premium. If you charge less than the market, you are telling everyone that your product is not worth as much as the others.

If you are far below market price, not only are you selling yourself short, you are screwing up the Market price for everyone else.

You might be the best tree worker in the world, but if you Charge $100 for a job that you KNOW everyone else is charging $400 for, you are no businessman.

 

[woodchuck357]

I can think of few higher complements

than being told I am not a business man! Thanks!

You can pay $250 a plate at a high end restaurant for the same meal, nutrition wise, that might cost only $5 in a small family restaurant. That's fine, but the high priced restaurateur shouldn't be whining about what the other place charges.

Point being, a big crew with all the latest equipment charging big bucks doesn't always mean the best work and the small crew with minimum tools doesn't necessarily do poor work. If The investment in equipment is profitable and if there is enough business to support the growth you desire AND you do good work you wouldn't be worried about a small crew doing excellent work(those who do substandard work, big or little, are no completion anyway).

I have a real problem with price fixing in any business.

Judy's diner is not a thorn in the side of La Mansion.

 

[ropensaddle]

than being told I am not a business man! Thanks!

You can pay $250 a plate at a high end restaurant for the same meal, nutrition wise, that might cost only $5 in a small family restaurant. That's fine, but the high priced restaurateur shouldn't be whining about what the other place charges.

Point being, a big crew with all the latest equipment charging big bucks doesn't always mean the best work and the small crew with minimum tools doesn't necessarily do poor work. If The investment in equipment is profitable and if there is enough business to support the growth you desire AND you do good work you wouldn't be worried about a small crew doing excellent work(those who do substandard work, big or little, are no completion anyway).

I have a real problem with price fixing in any business.

Judy's diner is not a thorn in the side of La Mansion.

Well perceptions of good work can be misleading and every tree man believes they do great work, some do, some just think they do. Most customers don't know the difference half the time, my customers do but every new customer seems to expect topping. I inform them that the good ole boys they used in the past, though can climb; don't know tree health if it bit them in the ass and then I back it up with literature :hmm3grin2orange: 80% of the tree men in my area of arkansas are hacks 20% are left to inform the public that real tree work is pricey and a profession not general labor!

 

[stltreedr]

The Market for the roadside diner and the market for the high end restaurant are completely different. Markets are based upon products of similar type and quality.

It's the same anywhere you go- If you are in the market for a fast food meal, you will expect to pay 6 or 8 bucks. If you want to take your wife for a steak and Wine on Valentine's Day, you might expect to pay $100. The meals might be the same in Calories, but completely different markets. Their profit margins are probably close to the same.


If company A and company B both are in the high end steak selling business, and they are right across the street from each other, you can bet that they would have similar prices, or one would go out of business. Same with the tree business.

There is a market for high quality work, and there is a market for cheap work. If a company does high quality work and prices themselves in the Cheap category one of two things happen:

You make less profit than you could or
The customer lumps you in the "Cheap" group and doesn't hire because they want high quality.

I like making full profit, I don't know about everyone else.

 

[ropensaddle]

Well perceptions of good work can be misleading and every tree man believes they do great work, some do, some just think they do. Most customers don't know the difference half the time, my customers do but every new customer seems to expect topping. I inform them that the good ole boys they used in the past, though can climb; don't know tree health if it bit them in the ass and then I back it up with literature :hmm3grin2orange: 80% of the tree men in my area of arkansas are hacks 20% are left to inform the public that real tree work is pricey and a profession not general labor!

Also poor tree work is permanent many times not repairable and is malpractice.

 

[timberland ts]

Im right in the middle. I have a bucket chipper stump grinder one ton and skidsteer. None of its new and its all paid for. Im lucky for what i have and get low balled by the hacks and the big guys. Ive decided on what i need to make and stick with it 110 to 125 /hr im not going to loose money just to win a job. Ive been in business for myself full time for two yrs. Last yr me and one guy did just over 100000.

 

[ropensaddle]

Im right in the middle. I have a bucket chipper stump grinder one ton and skidsteer. None of its new and its all paid for. Im lucky for what i have and get low balled by the hacks and the big guys. Ive decided on what i need to make and stick with it 110 to 125 /hr im not going to loose money just to win a job. Ive been in business for myself full time for two yrs. Last yr me and one guy did just over 100000.

Middle ground is a good value to customer especially if you educate yourself!

 

[pro94lt]

Ok the big boys charge say 700-1100 to do a removal, you charge 400 in a older truck and 1 helper with minimal overhead, how would you feel if you seen a guy start doing those jobs for say 150 and used mules and cross cut saws? It's basically the same scenario...

 

[rms61moparman]

Ok the big boys charge say 700-1100 to do a removal, you charge 400 in a older truck and 1 helper with minimal overhead, how would you feel if you seen a guy start doing those jobs for say 150 and used mules and cross cut saws? It's basically the same scenario...

I'd finish my job and go watch him!
I love to watch people work mules!!!


Mike

 

[ropensaddle]

I'd finish my job and go watch him!
I love to watch people work mules!!!


Mike

What if you bid a job then was called over by the neighbor guy that referred you to see 3 illegals doing the work with ski ropes for limbs and barefoot with machetes no rope saddle ?

 

[woodchuck357]

Reminds me of a job several years ago

Ok the big boys charge say 700-1100 to do a removal, you charge 400 in a older truck and 1 helper with minimal overhead, how would you feel if you seen a guy start doing those jobs for say 150 and used mules and cross cut saws? It's basically the same scenario...

Huge soft maple, in close quarters, we wound up welding two crosscuts end to end to finish the felling cut!

 

[rms61moparman]

What if you bid a job then was called over by the neighbor guy that referred you to see 3 illegals doing the work with ski ropes for limbs and barefoot with machetes no rope saddle ?

I'd take a few pictures to sell the insurance company that is about to have a big claim, and call my Masonic brother that is a funeral director.

I understand your frustration Rope, but guys like that are the best advertisement you can get!!!
They are cheap for a reason, and they know the value of their work better than anyone.


Mike

 

[jefflovstrom]

Can't believe you guys are still gabbing on this!
Jeff

 

[ropensaddle]

Can't believe you guys are still gabbing on this!
Jeff

Oh go have a beautiful day