I Want To Like My Stihl MS250 Again

[jonshonda]

Hey,

It is a 45cc homeowner saw...nothing is going to change those two facts. Mess with the muffler, change the b/c...and, you may get a bit more out of it.

It sounds like the 250 should become your backup saw...and, you should just buy a second saw with some more yank.

Roy

Roy,

You make great points, and I don't disagree. I really don't cut enough wood to justify spending more on another saw at this point. Plus I spend a lot of money on many other hobbies, so I have to try and squeeze a nickel out of a penny for now. From what I can tell, if the engineers had their way they might have put some different chains on the MS250 and it would perform much better.

 

[Pioneer]

I use the 23rs pro chain on my 250, and that's probably what's going to stay on it. It's smooth and it cuts fast, my only regret is not going to the 18-in bar, the saw could handle it even in hardwood. You REALLY do need a free flowing muffler to get the most power out of these saws. I figure I gained 50% by doing an extensive muffler mod to mine.
I like my example quite a bit, it's dead reliable and doesn't leak oil, which is more than I can say for half of my other saws.

As far as completely dissembling/assembling the saws, as another member put it, "it's like wrestling a cat into a bathtub." Not my favorite to work on.

It's light and cuts fast, only when the wood gets bigger than the bar do I switch to a bigger saw.

 

[Philbert]

We ran the snot out of a bunch of the MS250s with a volunteer, disaster response group, and they held up better than they should have, considering the use they got. But you mentioned cutting mostly oak and maple, and not being really happy with its power. The chain options discussed might help some. Good option to keep it as a second saw, which is always good to have.

It's always a gamble buying a used saw, especially if you have limited experience fixing them. A lot of guys have bought used rental saws (Makita) from local Home Depots, and have been generally happy with them. Less expensive option than buying new. Pretty soon, you will be like the rest of the guys on this site: with more chainsaws than pairs of socks!

Philbert

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

OP, what’s your sharpening like? A razor sharp chain and well set depth gauges on a 250 will beat a dull chain on a 660. I have recently gotten into hand filing and the difference between that and a couple of jigs I have tried is night and day.

 

[4CornersPuddle]

There is plenty of truth in what Gaudaost has just written.

 

[82F100SWB]

I definitely would switch over to a 23rsp. The narrow kerf chain isn't just smoke and mirrors, on a small saw like the 250 you are really going to notice the difference.
I also would downsize to a 16" bar, maybe even a 14.
I put a 14" 3/8 LP setup on the last 250 I had and it really liked it. But that was before RSP was available.
There is lots to be gained in the chain by itself, a good sharp chain on your saw will do better than a full one on a pro saw any day of the week.
Not saying that you wouldn't love a 261, because you will... LOL

 

[jellyroll]

Convert it to 3/8 LP they seem to run better with that chain. Here is the parts list to convert it

Stihl 3/8 PICCO 6T sprocket 1123 640 2073
------------------------------------------------------------------------
63PS - 3/8 - .050 - 55 Drive Links for 16'' bar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stihl Rollomatic E Guide Bar
16" 3/8 PICCO .050 Gauge 9 Tooth
3005 000 4813

 

[HarleyT]

Here is the Stihl catalog.

 

[HarleyT]

Most Stihl areas in the U.S. sell the .063 gauge on their .325 pitch saws/chains, so you might check your area dealers, as it will make getting chains for your saw a lot easier. If you get the 3/8 lo pro, go with the .050 gauge.

 

[AlterEgo]

The ms250 is not underpowered. It has other issues, but power is not one of them. your chain is dull. This is obvious when you say that you are 260lbs and may be pushing too hard. You should never have to push.
that being said, the ms250 would benefit from the small 3/8 chain (as someone already mentioned), although it is fine with .325.
learn how to sharpen, or find someone that knows how. Also it is probable that the carb tuning isn't optimal.
even the most gutless of saws can cut wood with a sharp chain and some patience. OP has neither.

 

[SteveSr]

Any more info on the rim conversion kit and 16" 3/8" LP chain?

Stihl part number 1123-007-1001. Shouldn't cost much more than a replacement spur sprocket with the advantage that it can be easily switched back to your 18" .325 with just a $5 replacement sprocket. IMHO 18" .325 is too much for that saw. I don't know why Stihl ever did it. The next saw down in this series ran 3/8" LP (Picco). This one can as well.

I am looking for the Pre EPA muffler as you described. Would you say that muffler doesn't need to be modded?

Correct. However, you may want to enlarge the "gills" in the spark screen cover a bit with a large flat blade screwdriver.

 

[jonshonda]

OP, what’s your sharpening like? A razor sharp chain and well set depth gauges on a 250 will beat a dull chain on a 660. I have recently gotten into hand filing and the difference between that and a couple of jigs I have tried is night and day.

I have the Stihl 2n1 file. I hand sharpen axes, chisels, planes, scissors, lawnmower blades, etc. Not saying that any of that matters, but from what I can tell as long as I am following the correct angle, keeping the file level, and I can see that when I am done sharpening the entire cutting surface has been touched by the file, that it should be good.

I sharpen often and never rush it.

Convert it to 3/8 LP they seem to run better with that chain. Here is the parts list to convert it

Stihl 3/8 PICCO 6T sprocket 1123 640 2073
------------------------------------------------------------------------
63PS - 3/8 - .050 - 55 Drive Links for 16'' bar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stihl Rollomatic E Guide Bar
16" 3/8 PICCO .050 Gauge 9 Tooth
3005 000 4813

Thank you sir!


As far as the comments about the MS250 not being underpowered, I guess I would be curious to hear what those same people thought of the MS261. Is that saw overpowered? Because I doubt anyone has complained that a saw cut too fast through wood.

 

[sundance]

I have the Stihl 2n1 file. I hand sharpen axes, chisels, planes, scissors, lawnmower blades, etc. Not saying that any of that matters, but from what I can tell as long as I am following the correct angle, keeping the file level, and I can see that when I am done sharpening the entire cutting surface has been touched by the file, that it should be good.

I sharpen often and never rush it.


Thank you sir!


As far as the comments about the MS250 not being underpowered, I guess I would be curious to hear what those same people thought of the MS261. Is that saw overpowered? Because I doubt anyone has complained that a saw cut too fast through wood.

No question the MS261 is a more powerful saw than the MS250. If you want to upgrade then do it. Many on here would tell you to just get an MS462 (or Husky equivalent). When itsrunning correctly with a good chain the MS250 is a good saw for its intended use.

MS 250 Specifications - Occasional Use
DISPLACEMENT	45.4 cc (2.77 cu. in.)
ENGINE POWER	2.2 kW (3.0 bhp)
POWERHEAD WEIGHT	4.6 kg (10.1 lbs.)

MS 261 Specifications - Professional Use
DISPLACEMENT	50.2 cc (3.06 cu. in.)
ENGINE POWER	3.0 kW (4.0 bhp)
POWERHEAD WEIGHT	4.9 kg (10.8 lbs.)

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I have the Stihl 2n1 file. I hand sharpen axes, chisels, planes, scissors, lawnmower blades, etc. Not saying that any of that matters, but from what I can tell as long as I am following the correct angle, keeping the file level, and I can see that when I am done sharpening the entire cutting surface has been touched by the file, that it should be good.

I sharpen often and never rush it.


Thank you sir!


As far as the comments about the MS250 not being underpowered, I guess I would be curious to hear what those same people thought of the MS261. Is that saw overpowered? Because I doubt anyone has complained that a saw cut too fast through wood.

Hey mate, I too owned 2 in 1 files from stihl, in fact I owned one in .325, 3/8 and .404. They are terrible. I used them on my ms 180, 260, 039, 034, 076 and 07. I really wanted them to work, they didn’t. They take out all hook, and give a very poor profile. None of my saws self fed, none were loading the saw from the tooth engaging and so I went to the normal stihl file guide.

Another piece of junk, again held the file too high and never got the gullet. It was only then when I started free hand filing that I understood how a chainsaw should work.

Now I can finally get a decent tooth, hook and gullet..



You can run a 661, but if it’s sharpened with the 2 in 1 it will suck. Trust me, I ran a 076 super (111cc) having filed it with the 2 in 1 and it was unimpressive to say the least

Before you spend any money, but a stihl round file, a stihl flat file and a progressive raker gauge. Watch a few videos on what you are aiming for and give it a go.

In fact, I sold all my 2 in 1’s and I took all the stihl file guides and wrapped them in tape and chucked them in the a box in storage:



Now all I have in my file kit is as mentioned - round file, flat file and progressive depth gauge.




My saws have never cut better, it loads up the saw, self feeds and as you’ll see at the end of the video, gives great chips (remembering the wood I’m cutting is dry, rock hard Australian eucalyptus (gum) not soft pine) - this is the result of a couple hours practising hand filing. Note I ran the chain purposely looser than ideal because the hard nose bar got hot.

 

[farmer steve]

We did a side by side comparison with the 250 with the .325 chain and the 3/8 picco chain. 3/8 picco chain won hands down. The 250 doesn't have enough sh!t to pull a .325 chain. IMO.

 

[stihl86]

Hey mate, I too owned 2 in 1 files from stihl, in fact I owned one in .325, 3/8 and .404. They are terrible. I used them on my ms 180, 260, 039, 034, 076 and 07. I really wanted them to work, they didn’t. They take out all hook, and give a very poor profile. None of my saws self fed, none were loading the saw from the tooth engaging and so I went to the normal stihl file guide.

Another piece of junk, again held the file too high and never got the gullet. It was only then when I started free hand filing that I understood how a chainsaw should work.

Now I can finally get a decent tooth, hook and gullet..

View attachment 878228

You can run a 661, but if it’s sharpened with the 2 in 1 it will suck. Trust me, I ran a 076 super (111cc) having filed it with the 2 in 1 and it was unimpressive to say the least

Before you spend any money, but a stihl round file, a stihl flat file and a progressive raker gauge. Watch a few videos on what you are aiming for and give it a go.

In fact, I sold all my 2 in 1’s and I took all the stihl file guides and wrapped them in tape and chucked them in the a box in storage:

View attachment 878221

Now all I have in my file kit is as mentioned - round file, flat file and progressive depth gauge.

View attachment 878220


My saws have never cut better, it loads up the saw, self feeds and as you’ll see at the end of the video, gives great chips (remembering the wood I’m cutting is dry, rock hard Australian eucalyptus (gum) not soft pine) - this is the result of a couple hours practising hand filing. Note I ran the chain purposely looser than ideal because the hard nose bar got hot.

1 in 20 people would take the time you do to sharpen a chain. Rush, rush. But, I've found that 2 in 1 to be a nice tool. I've seen chains with such a hook, you could land a shark, from free hand. There are extremes to everything. And one thing for sure, without a doubt, Stihl doesn't want any saw to self feed.
Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying, YOU know how. YOU took the time. Few do or would even make the effort to learn. These are occasional users. That tool is a compromise. A novice cant ruin a chain or take the DEPTH GUAGES, (a raker is someone who uses a rake, no kidding. Google it LOL) down too much. That, as you know will, make a saw self feed for sure.
Safety is as important as speed. One cant get much done while in the ER getting a saw removed from their skull.
You became an expert at sharpening, though trail and error, work and practice. Not many are.
None of our larger tree services, especially climber, use any guides. Of any kind.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

1 in 20 people would take the time you do to sharpen a chain. Rush, rush. But, I've found that 2 in 1 to be a nice tool. I've seen chains with such a hook, you could land a shark, from free hand. There are extremes to everything. And one thing for sure, without a doubt, Stihl doesn't want any saw to self feed.
Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying, YOU know how. YOU took the time. Few do or would even make the effort to learn. These are occasional users. That tool is a compromise. A novice cant ruin a chain or take the DEPTH GUAGES, (a raker is someone who uses a rake, no kidding. Google it LOL) down too much. That, as you know will, make a saw self feed for sure.
Safety is as important as speed. One cant get much done while in the ER getting a saw removed from their skull.
You became an expert at sharpening, though trail and error, work and practice. Not many are.
None of our larger tree services, especially climber, use any guides. Of any kind.

I appreciate the respectful response and kind words. I can only talk from my experience using them - there must be many out there that like them. Warm regards, Tom

 

[jonshonda]

^ Good info guys, and I do respect someone whom has taken the time to perfect their technique in any certain area (aka sharpening a chainsaw chain). What I always find interesting is everywhere you look, there are people who have put in a lot of time to become really good at something, like way past what you thought possible.

Like stihl86 said, while I am not opposed to learning to sharpen a saw w/o the use of handicapped tools, by looking at the tooth profile and how the file appears to be contacting the entire cutting surface, I feel as if I am doing an ok job. But I will do some more research to see if what I am doing is correct. For now here is my chain after a recent sharpening. I think the angles capture what is needed for critique, and am open to suggestions.

I also found a Stihl 025 pre epa muffler, and would like to give that a try.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

^ Good info guys, and I do respect someone whom has taken the time to perfect their technique in any certain area (aka sharpening a chainsaw chain). What I always find interesting is everywhere you look, there are people who have put in a lot of time to become really good at something, like way past what you thought possible.

Like stihl86 said, while I am not opposed to learning to sharpen a saw w/o the use of handicapped tools, by looking at the tooth profile and how the file appears to be contacting the entire cutting surface, I feel as if I am doing an ok job. But I will do some more research to see if what I am doing is correct. For now here is my chain after a recent sharpening. I think the angles capture what is needed for critique, and am open to suggestions.

I also found a Stihl 025 pre epa muffler, and would like to give that a try.

Hard to see clearly, but looks way better than the results I got from my 2 in 1’s

it just kept taking out all the hook - here are a couple of different chains:

 

[jonshonda]

Would straight side shots from both sides of the chain work best to evaluate the shape and quality?