I was wondering...

[Old Blue]

If maybe some kind soul who is successful at hand sharpening chains, would consider posting an informal video of themselves sharpening a saw chain on the saw. Maybe talk about a couple of the key points that help get their chains the sharpest.

This occurred to me because I am in full rookie failure mode when it comes to sharpening. I have tried it a dozen or so times and have not yet been happy with the results.

I have been focusing on making deliberate carbon copy strokes with my file.
I start with a deliberate placement of the end of the file in the notch of the tooth.
I look to see if I need to correct the angle of the file to the cutter angle.
I start to push the file through the stroke and it looks like I need to lift the handle a little as the tooth will slightly lay over in the bar as I push on it.
There seems to be an angle at which the file will slide through the stroke instead of grabbing the tooth and stalling the stroke. I'm not sure but I think this is what I'm trying to get it to do, that is slide through the stroke. Is that right?

I'm pretty happy with my ability to repeat the strokes accurately but I am not really sharpening too much. In fact, I have tried it before the chain gets dull and have noticed that instead of maintaining or touching up the cutters, I actually seem to be dulling them with my best efforts.

I think I am just missing some key part of it and I haven't been able to figure it out. The cutters on the new chains are sticky sharp and cut great but I cannot seem to be able to maintain or restore the edge and their performance.

I just used a depth gauge to check my rakers and they were in need of lowering, so I did. I haven't had a chance to use it yet so I don't know how I did just yet. But I do know that my cutters are just not that sharp and I can't seem to be able to get the hang of it.

What am I missing?

Any tips, advice or ridicule (as long as it makes me laugh) are appreciated.

Old Blue
With too damn many dull chains. In...
Kali-bone-ya

 

[BobL]

Funny you should mention sharpening as I was converting a full comp 35º cross cutting 3/8 chain for a 42" bar today to 10º top plate angle using a file. I started with a new file and it was taking me 10 file swipes to convert a cutter to a 10º top plate angle. As the file clogged the number of swipes increased, When it got to 14 swipes I rotated the file in the file holder. Then I did the rakers and it was 5 swipes with a clean file and 6 when the file

If maybe some kind soul who is successful at hand sharpening chains, would consider posting an informal video of themselves sharpening a saw chain on the saw. Maybe talk about a couple of the key points that help get their chains the sharpest.

No talking, but here is one of me touching up;

Notice how I move the cutters to the same position above the vice rather than move my arms to a new cutter. This helps ensure angle reproducibility.
This is how I touch up in the field after every tankful - in practice I watch for and remove cutter edge glint, so some cutters just get one stroke and 1 for luck i.e. 2 stroke minimum, extra strokes are added until glint is gone.

And setting the rakers

Of course I don't do this every time I touch the rakers. I swipe the rakers in the field every 3-4 touch ups and then do a full check at the end of the day.

This occurred to me because I am in full rookie failure mode when it comes to sharpening. I have tried it a dozen or so times and have not yet been happy with the results.

Hang in there, it's s bit like learning to ride a bike - eventually you hit a sweet spot and you won't forget it.

I have been focusing on making deliberate carbon copy strokes with my file.

That's a start

I start with a deliberate placement of the end of the file in the notch of the tooth.

Yep

I look to see if I need to correct the angle of the file to the cutter angle.

And yep

I start to push the file through the stroke and it looks like I need to lift the handle a little as the tooth will slightly lay over in the bar as I push on it.

It's OK if it lays over a bit. If it too much that means you drive links/groove are worn - compare with a new B&C.
If it sticks pusk through the stick - the sound is critical. I my video you will hear squeaks - that is not right - it should be a nice crunchy rasping sound/grating sound.

There seems to be an angle at which the file will slide through the stroke instead of grabbing the tooth and stalling the stroke. I'm not sure but I think this is what I'm trying to get it to do, that is slide through the stroke. Is that right?

Sure - concentrate on slow - deliberate - steady -firm strokes and build up the speed over time.

I'm pretty happy with my ability to repeat the strokes accurately but I am not really sharpening too much. In fact, I have tried it before the chain gets dull and have noticed that instead of maintaining or touching up the cutters, I actually seem to be dulling them with my best efforts.

Are you using a file height guide? - I can sharpen without but I am much quicker with the guide.
Can you post a close-up fully side-on picture of a cutter and I will give you a diagnosis.

The cutters on the new chains are sticky sharp and cut great but I cannot seem to be able to maintain or restore the edge and their performance.

A well filed chain should be sharper than a new chain - it sounds like there is a significant problem there somewhere

Any tips, advice or ridicule (as long as it makes me laugh) are appreciated.

How often do you clean the file?
How often do you change the file.

 

[freetrapper]

I had to teach myself to sharpen and I have always filed from the cutting edge of the tooth in towards the bar to avoid leaving a burr on the cutting edge. Have I been doing it wrong all these years ?

 

[BobL]

I had to teach myself to sharpen and I have always filed from the cutting edge of the tooth in towards the bar to avoid leaving a burr on the cutting edge. Have I been doing it wrong all these years ?

I don't think it maters matter which way you file, if you leave a burr on the cutting edge it will come off in the first millisecond of cutting operation

 

[Old Blue]

Well a picture is worth a thousand words. And in my world a video is worth a thousand pictures!

Many thanks for that video Bob. I can see some changes I need to make. Hearing the sound of a proper file stroke was very helpful and I really like your technique for advancing to the next cutter. It looks good and efficient and seems like it would really help in keeping all of the alignments (stance, hand and arm positions) in a consistent starting position from cutter to cutter. I was awkwardly grabbing the chain to advance and can see how I'm not doing myself any favors there.

You mentioned that you watch for the removal of "glint" from the cutter as your cue to when a cutter is sharp. Is the glint showing along the top leading edge of the cutter? and is it difficult to see? Do I need to position my eyes / head so it is visible as a reflection? I have never noticed it before but then I haven't done much sharpening and my eyes are not real good. I remember in the past you have mentioned glint but I wasn't really too sure what you were talking about (see, I have been paying attention - just a little slow maybe).

Particular thanks for the video of the use of the digital angle finder for the raker setting. That looks like a much easier and reliably repeatable method for consistent raker settings.

That's a lot of good direction and motivation for me. I have some great examples to shoot for. I'll be trying again soon.
Thank you very much!

Old Blue
Working my way through sharpening 101 in ................................
Kali-bone-ya

 

[BobL]

Well a picture is worth a thousand words. And in my world a video is worth a thousand pictures!

Next time I'm sharpening I might see if I can do a commented vid.

You mentioned that you watch for the removal of "glint" from the cutter as your cue to when a cutter is sharp. Is the glint showing along the top leading edge of the cutter? and is it difficult to see? Do I need to position my eyes / head so it is visible as a reflection? I have never noticed it before but then I haven't done much sharpening and my eyes are not real good. I remember in the past you have mentioned glint but I wasn't really too sure what you were talking about (see, I have been paying attention - just a little slow maybe).

There is a whole thread about glints I wrote in 2009 here http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/chain-cutter-glint.109475/
Unfortunately the pics are not working (DANG) - so I'l see if I can find them and reload some again.

This is one a new cutter - glint is the shiny edge


Here is a diagram that explains it - magnified bubble on left is glint free, Right hand image shows how wear on the edge produces glint.

My eyes are also pair so I wear a pair of head mounted magnifiers.

That's a lot of good direction and motivation for me. I have some great examples to shoot for. I'll be trying again soon.
Thank you very much!

No worries!

 

[john taliaferro]

I had some carlton chain that was chrome that would only file from the inside out ,two strokes outside in would ruin a new file .

 

[mmartone]

Just a suggestion, buy a Stihl 2 in 1 sharpener, fast ez and does a great job. Cost about $50 and does the teeth and rakers/guides in same stroke.
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/accessories/filing-tools/2in1file/

 

[BobL]

Just a suggestion, buy a Stihl 2 in 1 sharpener, fast ez and does a great job. Cost about $50 and does the teeth and rakers/guides in same stroke.
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/accessories/filing-tools/2in1file/

I have two problems with the way these guides do the rakers.
1) They do not filing the rakers in a progressive manner so the rakers will not be aggressive enough as they get more worn and the more worn they get the worse they will be.
2) They produce a flat top (i.e. resistive) raker which is not desirable especially for long chains
These gismos are OK for small saws or folks that don't wish to maximise their chain life.

Some folks call me a conspiratory theorist about this but I can't help thinking that Stihl want chainsaw operators to buy more chain so it is in their interest to build filing gadgets that files the chain to be less than optimal as the chain wears.

 

[samdweezel05]

I have two problems with the way these guides do the rakers.
1) They do not filing the rakers in a progressive manner so the rakers will not be aggressive enough as they get more worn and the more worn they get the worse they will be.
2) They produce a flat top (i.e. resistive) raker which is not desirable especially for long chains
These gismos are OK for small saws or folks that don't wish to maximise their chain life.

Some folks call me a conspiratory theorist about this but I can't help thinking that Stihl want chainsaw operators to buy more chain so it is in their interest to build filing gadgets that files the chain to be less than optimal as the chain wears.

And that's not a bad conspiracy but the occasional use guy or homeowner that would buy this sharpening thing would take 10 years to wear out a chain so Stihl probably isn't going to keep the company afloat waiting on them to replace a chain. Also, normal non milling saw users don't need a progressive raker depth to buck up firewood for the year or cut down that pesky 4" sapling. I however appreciate your views and opinions of a 10 degree cutter and progressive raker depth.