Illegal loggers at the sawmill. Just curious how they are getting away with it

[matthew sparks]

As many of you know I have been working hard as a green feller. It has been about to kill me, but I love it at the same time.

Today at lunch time we all went into town to eat. I rode in a logging truck with one of the guys. I just wanted to see what the sawmill was like we were using and why it always took him so long to get back once he dropped off a load.

Well when we arrived there were several farm trucks pulling gooseneck trailers waiting to be unloaded. They were under 26k but they didn't even have DOT numbers. I thought maybe they didn't have to have a CDL in Kentucky since they are pulling small loads but how are they getting away with not even having DOT numbers?

Just curious. I don't want to just cut down trees the rest of my life. I want to make the money of running a logging company and just wonder how the heck these guys are getting away with this day in day out when the guy I work for gets pulled over if one little light is even shorting out and flashing.

 

[Locust Cutter]

Not sure about KY laws, but in KS for example, if the trucks/trailers are farm tagged and they're hauling off of their ground (in-state) they don't need DOT#'s (under 26K). That's how I get around it, legally. If it was a for-profit business, they'd likely be S.O.L.

 

[matthew sparks]

Well these aren't people hauling off of their own property. I figured they would get busted and pulled over a lot. I kind of assumed what you said but thought there must be more to it than that.

 

[blumtn969]

Here in Oregon I see a lot of 80 thousand big rigs using farm plates. It only makes sense for the guy who needs to haul some stuff but doesn't want to pay the quarterly license fee.

 

[Red Elm]

Just a friendly word of advice, concentrate on becoming a top notch faller/cutter, keep your mouth shut and your ears open and you'll get your answers in time. Guys that are running around asking those kinda questions around sawmills and logging crews arent usually received well. Your questions my be well intended, but loggers are suspicious by nature. Don't give them a reason to be.

 

[Homelite410]

According to the laws here we can haul farm to market un processed farm goods on a farm plate. We CAN'T haul processed goods (sbm, ddg, etc) even tho its farm use from market to farm..

I am talking semi here.

 

[northmanlogging]

Its been my understanding that under 26k you don't need a dot number, I've been told that with a trailer it drops to 16k? not sure if this is true or not and I should probably do some research on this for my own good, that being said every state has its own laws.

I still have to pay tonnage on my dump truck which is rated at 26k but never had a dot number.

 

[matthew sparks]

Thanks for all the responses. I just started out as a feller but I want to take on my own jobs as low impact logging in the near future. I can't dodge flying limbs forever without reaping the rewards of a great market. Everytime I pass a truckload of White Oaks standing on a farmers property on my way to fell trees for 5.00 each I want to go cut that guys trees down and get 50% instead of 50.00......

As soon as I learn how to properly grade trees I will have to make a cut or two on my own.....

 

[northmanlogging]

there is a little more to it then just putting them on the ground... I'm sure your aware of that...

The timber market is notoriously finicky, prices are good right now, but next week the the queen of south didymanjaro may have a bad case of gout that could set of a chain reaction depressing the economy of... wherever... thereby screwing us on what we get paid at the mill... its an eggs and basket thing I'll never really understand...

Anyway I'm a little tired right now, but keep asking questions, never learn if you don't ask, loggers are paranoid, but most it seems truly want to see a guy succeed, as long as your not in direct competition... besides if your asking questions it means your thinking, just remember to listen to the answers.

 

[matthew sparks]

I know I have a lot to learn. Before I cut down my first tree for the company I am working for now I told them I wanted to start my own. I just don't know how to grade and not get ripped off by sawmills. I wouldn't know what logs are not stave logs and are in certain situations. A sawmill could talk me out of premium logs at a railroad tie price until I learn a LOT more. As far as getting contracts I can get them where I live. I still live in a community where everyone knows everyone and I am fortunate enough to have a good name with all the people in the entire county. I was playing poker with a guy the other night that was saying he wished he could get all his cyprus cut in the swamps he bought. I drove by there and saw stumps to big for any of my bars to go all the way through.

Too bad I know nothing about cyprus. Biggest trees I ever saw in this area in my life.....

 

[hammerlogging]

take 2 log buyers out individually there and ask them for a straight through price on all of it, then ask someone with some more experience if its a competitive number

 

[matthew sparks]

Thanks hammerlogging. I have just now learned a lot of the log buyers will buy on site and not just at the mills. I have so much to learn

 

[hammerlogging]

that would be a delivered price you'd be looking for

 

[matthew sparks]

I just need to go cut logs and stack them up and find out what they will give me I guess. I will either make money or learn from my mistakes haha

 

[northmanlogging]

Its better to have some clue as to lengths, diameters and species before you start cutting. So don't be shy about calling the mills and asking what they accept and what they prefer, seems most have caught on to e-mails now, I get a flurry of e-mails with just log prices and preferred lengths, one outfit even sends out little cheat cards with a list of accepted lengths, preferred lengths with trim lengths allready calculated for ya, of course they are still sitting on the desk next to the puter, so lets hope my memory is still working properly...

 

[matthew sparks]

Thanks so much. I will check with local mills. I know everyone wants white oaks here right now in 8 ft logs and 18" or bigger on the stump. I have some jobs lined out if I decide to move forward alone on any jobs.

 

[066blaster]

It probably depends on which roads your running. The county and local cops probably don't even know the laws regarding weight and dot numbers. The state cops watching the state highways and intestate do. Also the guys running goosenecks and pick ups probably don't know the laws either. Doesn't necessarily mean the crooks.

 

[CRThomas]

I go from Illinois to Kentucky with logs for Westvaco I make sure I am under 26000. I got checked two times now they just wave me thru but I don't take no chances, when I get to Westvaco the scales man unload your self yes over there back on the scales and gone.

 

[kjp]

i haul over 26 k with no dot almost weekly here. with no logos on the truck and being a srw pickup with a gooser no one seems to care.

 

[matthew sparks]

I wondered if anyone hauled small loads to westvaco. The first logging job I have has a bunch of big pines on it. What are they paying a ton there? I heard it wasn't much but I hate to leave 400 trees laying on the ground and no money for them.