Illegal loggers at the sawmill. Just curious how they are getting away with it

[CRThomas]

I know I have a lot to learn. Before I cut down my first tree for the company I am working for now I told them I wanted to start my own. I just don't know how to grade and not get ripped off by sawmills. I wouldn't know what logs are not stave logs and are in certain situations. A sawmill could talk me out of premium logs at a railroad tie price until I learn a LOT more. As far as getting contracts I can get them where I live. I still live in a community where everyone knows everyone and I am fortunate enough to have a good name with all the people in the entire county. I was playing poker with a guy the other night that was saying he wished he could get all his cyprus cut in the swamps he bought. I drove by there and saw stumps to big for any of my bars to go all the way through.

Too bad I know nothing about cyprus. Biggest trees I ever saw in this area in my life.....

Were i live at you cut a cyprus tree get ready for a big fine. If you oun your own truck and what your hauling off of your land no problem. I only haul logs I can't cut in to firewood tho. There are places all over the states that buy cull logs by the ton

 

[CRThomas]

i haul over 26 k with no dot almost weekly here. with no logos on the truck and being a srw pickup with a gooser no one seems to care.

Wesvco at Wickliffe Ky you call that voice comes on and say what they are doing that day and the price.

 

[matthew sparks]

I am hauling from Benton, KY. I have heard so many different things about the price I didn't know. I knew a lot of loggers do it and a lot say to not mess with pulp. I commercial fish at Columbus for Spoonbill in the winter and have been through there a bunch.

 

[northmanlogging]

Were i live at you cut a cyprus tree get ready for a big fine. If you oun your own truck and what your hauling off of your land no problem. I only haul logs I can't cut in to firewood tho. There are places all over the states that buy cull logs by the ton

May sound silly... but you only haul really crappy stuff for pulp? Everything else goes to firewood? If so you may want to look at how much work your putting into what your getting for a cord of wood vs sending it to the mill. May seem like your getting paid less for logs, but you may want to crunch the numbers a bit. Also if your getting such low numbers for logs, you should maybe look at how they are being bucked and delivered. Just say'n not trying to be a jack ass, even though I'm good at it.

Also if hauling pulp is so bad, how come so many folks do it? Granted some times its part of a job to clean up all marketable wood, still if its not worth the trip then it would stay in the woods.

Personally I make more on what would be considered pulp by cutting it at 10 feet and tossing it in the dump truck, then getting paid for it as firewood, or selling it straight to the self loader jockey who then turns around and sells it as fire wood. Still though entire markets are made up of mostly pulp wood.

 

[treeslayer2003]

i hate messing with chip wood..............i got two nice loads of long gum chip wood now no one wants unless i haul it 60 miles.
if it was small oak or hickory, the fire wood buyers would fight over it.
all about the local market.

 

[matthew sparks]

Well here all pine trees are considered junk. Most logging companies mow it over. I know that southern yellow pine is made into lumber and logs for log cabins but here they won't touch it. I peeled a bunch of it last year and had no bug problems after an instant peel and then sealing with Behr Log Cabin sealer. Here everyone says it is junk and send it straight to the mill. I don't know if it is because of wood boorers or what. My log held up fine. Its funny people where I live laugh if you try to use Pine but I see a guy by andersonville about 120 miles away and he has a full time saw mill selling lap siding, d logs, etc. He seems to sell about .60 a bd ft and stays busy. Its a low price for moulded wood, but I bet he gets it for free. As I can if I want it.

I have yet to figure out the pulp softwood here but CRT is close enough that he may be able to explain it.

 

[matthew sparks]

Northman if you don't quit talking about firewood I am gonna go buy logs or chase tops in the woods and sell firewood. I wish I could export. Firewood is so cheap here that buy just buying and reselling I could make more brokering firewood to Chicago. I saw they have expo's of firewood that average 450.00 a cord and its always 100 or less here.

 

[DanTheCanadian]

Supply and demand is a funny thing.

 

[CRThomas]

Well here all pine trees are considered junk. Most logging companies mow it over. I know that southern yellow pine is made into lumber and logs for log cabins but here they won't touch it. I peeled a bunch of it last year and had no bug problems after an instant peel and then sealing with Behr Log Cabin sealer. Here everyone says it is junk and send it straight to the mill. I don't know if it is because of wood boorers or what. My log held up fine. Its funny people where I live laugh if you try to use Pine but I see a guy by andersonville about 120 miles away and he has a full time saw mill selling lap siding, d logs, etc. He seems to sell about .60 a bd ft and stays busy. Its a low price for moulded wood, but I bet he gets it for free. As I can if I want it.

I have yet to figure out the pulp softwood here but CRT is close enough that he may be able to explain it.

To start with I only do bundles firewood. The wood has to split straight and I only do Ash. So any other wood is trash to me but could be a gold mine to some one else. If I get a Ash and it is real knotty it is trash to me I make a very comfortable live with the way I do it. The area I live in you can not give firewood away you have to deliver it free thats the way the folks are. I take a cord of Ash and bundle it were it is nice and straight looks good that cord brings me about $750.00 minum that is at whole sale $2.50 a bundle with a order of 40 bundles or more. If I put peoples pictures or sayings or the pet picture or wrape it in krispie paper or they order it in colors it goes up as high as $10.00 dollars a bundle minum of delivered no less than 10 bundles. But a box of xmas wrap cost me $245.00 4 rolls. The first 6 weeks in this year I sold thousand of bundle because firewood sellers run out of dry wood and was selling green so they bought my wood to get there green started. The price at Westvaco today was $27.00 a ton at Westvaco or Scott City some of the wood is for paper and some for the boiler. Later

 

[matthew sparks]

Thanks CRThomas! I sure wish I knew how to market firewood in this area. Everyone wants it for free here. White Oaks seem to be king in the woods for the sawmills just across the river from you. I was trying to figure out what my fuel would be to take wood to Westvaco. The only stores I have seen selling bundles around here is Huck's none of the other gas stations seem to buy bundles. I know we have Ash in this area too but I sure don't see those bundle sellers around Paducah. Maybe they are here but I am not seeing it. Maybe your the one selling here. The only wood I saw at Huck's was actually sawmill slabs cut into firewood length and put in little metal stacking containers. I assume it is for the campers headed to the lake.

 

[CRThomas]

Thanks for all the responses. I just started out as a feller but I want to take on my own jobs as low impact logging in the near future. I can't dodge flying limbs forever without reaping the rewards of a great market. Everytime I pass a truckload of White Oaks standing on a farmers property on my way to fell trees for 5.00 each I want to go cut that guys trees down and get 50% instead of 50.00......

As soon as I learn how to properly grade trees I will have to make a cut or two on my own.....

When going on your own make sure you have back up money if you work every day for cash flow you never get a head. Back up money is a must Later

 

[matthew sparks]

Thats the whole reason I have 20k in the bank now and haven't bought a skidder yet. I don't want to go into this too small, but I also don't want a second mortgage on my house. Appreciate the advice.

 

[CRThomas]

Thanks CRThomas! I sure wish I knew how to market firewood in this area. Everyone wants it for free here. White Oaks seem to be king in the woods for the sawmills just across the river from you. I was trying to figure out what my fuel would be to take wood to Westvaco. The only stores I have seen selling bundles around here is Huck's none of the other gas stations seem to buy bundles. I know we have Ash in this area too but I sure don't see those bundle sellers around Paducah. Maybe they are here but I am not seeing it. Maybe your the one selling here. The only wood I saw at Huck's was actually sawmill slabs cut into firewood length and put in little metal stacking containers. I assume it is for the campers headed to the lake.

If you live close to Paducah the size of that town is a little gold mine in the bundled firewood business I only servic a town of the same size and they keep me busy. If your local and reliable and sell Ash because it make your job easier if you go in to that venture you will see You have to get that thought train out of your mind that you but firewood for heat bundle dry Ash is for every thing else.

 

[matthew sparks]

I am 3 miles from Paducah in Ledbetter KY on HWY 60. I guess I need to look into this bundled firewood business more. i had thought about buying rounds from the sawmill at one point but I honestly don't know how the business is marketed.

 

[CRThomas]

It probably depends on which roads your running. The county and local cops probably don't even know the laws regarding weight and dot numbers. The state cops watching the state highways and intestate do. Also the guys running goosenecks and pick ups probably don't know the laws either. Doesn't necessarily mean the crooks.

I was in the cafe with a load of logs couple weeks a go two trooper and two DOT came in one DOT said you going to strap you log down I said I guess to stay out of trouble I told the gal at the counter I got there coffee one of the trooper said Bobbys out of wood take care of him hes our buddy you know thats the kind of place I live. Later

 

[matthew sparks]

I live in the same place. Here if you get pulled over and the cop doesn't like you then you better buy another truck or you will get pulled over everytime they see you. If they like you then you can keep your truck and they will just wave.

 

[CRThomas]

I am 3 miles from Paducah in Ledbetter KY on HWY 60. I guess I need to look into this bundled firewood business more. i had thought about buying rounds from the sawmill at one point but I honestly don't know how the business is marketed.

Find a Mini mart close to the money and a hudson bundler will run you about a $1000.00. A true rank of firewood will make a 100 bundles and remember most of your customers will be over 50 years old most of the little old ladys have trouble with a 10 to 12 lb bundle so don't do a full 12 x 12 your selling bundles not size of bundle. Let me back up I do sell bulk wood to some lady that buy the knots off me but they been customers for $20.00 they are Gay but that doesn't bother me When you deliver it to there homes they ask you to walk there dog or take out the trash it won't hurt a bit to do it some times you get a good tip. Some of my customers been with me so long they know more about me than I do. Later remember the sticks about the size of your wrist and only 8 to a bundle thats 10 o 12 lb dry Ash

 

[northmanlogging]

I live in the same place. Here if you get pulled over and the cop doesn't like you then you better buy another truck or you will get pulled over everytime they see you. If they like you then you can keep your truck and they will just wave.

The little crap town I'm in had an issue with the police similar to this... Had a little pow wow with the "cheif" I made it clear I didn't appreciate being threatened or harassed, and the next time one threatened me they would get what they where looking for... Haven't been pulled over since.


They have all been replaced by a sheriffs, the rest of the town has had enough as well.

 

[matthew sparks]

Yeah I was trying to look up what I needed to know about GVWR and CGVWR and understand it all. We used to only have county cops. Now state troopers are everywhere looking for the next ticket. I am trying to stay under 26k whether I am logging full time or doing firewood. I saw on one site where you have to have your truck moved up on the license plate which makes no sense to me since nobody around here does for farm trucks to go to the cattle auctions. I also know they are over 26k between truck and trailer if it is added up by what the trailer says. My buddie hauls over 20k lbs on a 7klb trailer all the time hauling scrap metal and they don't even look at him. If it were logs I bet they would pull him over in a heartbeat.

 

[northmanlogging]

There is gvwr and gvw...

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, as in how much can you carry, largely depends on the pulling vehicle, but is a combination of truck and trailer ratings, this is what you can haul legally (no cdl 26k regardless, most trucks are not rated for 26k, even if the dealer says they are either way you may still have to pay tonnage), and just because your trailer is rated for 16k, does not mean your truck is rated for 16k, or with truck trailer and load 26k or more...

Gross Vehicle Weight, this is what you weigh, truck trailer, occupants, and load, this cannot exceed your GVWR, or you get fined...

Just be careful out there.