I'm from China. I need logs. There's a log to come.

[Jhenderson]

You really need to stop ass-u-me-ing it makes you look even dumber

I’m not assuming anything. West coast politicians, voted on by their constituents, packed the 9 th circuit with activist judges. Those judges allowed nuisance law suits to shut down logging in the PNW. It doesn’t matter if it was about the owl or road building, it cut off supply. This forced the closure of most of the mills in the area due to lack of raw material. After that came nafta. You’re not the only outfit affected. In the NE our best logs suddenly started going to Canada. Sent there by folks like you. That slowly forced the local mills to close, one by one. When I started logging there were 11 sawmills in R.I. Now there’s one. And everyone cries about no markets and no competition while they ignore the fact it’s their own shortsighted fault. It’s obvious your happy doing business with people who steal from your neighbors. Your also chuck full self righteous indignation when you get called on it. Hooray for me and to hell with everyone else. That’s not how I was raised.

 

[Jhenderson]

A number of years ago when I was completely depending on USDA wood I had to sign and agreement that I would not export wood unless several people signed off on the sale. Now that some of my wood is from private sources I grab any possible export possibility. What some countries pay is unbelievable. Thanks

Read my previous post.

 

[northmanlogging]

Self righteous indignation...

Cause I was totally old enough to vote in 1991 yup. All my fault again yep.

How about ya look up George bush sr. Trip to China and trade deals, maybe get some education instead of opinions

 

[catbuster]

Self righteous indignation...

Cause I was totally old enough to vote in 1991 yup. All my fault again yep.

How about ya look up George bush sr. Trip to China and trade deals, maybe get some education instead of opinions

To preface-I agree with you (the Gyppo’s Gyppo) on most of your points. At the time of the 1991 election I was 5. I agree with the definite Trump voter worried about “MAGA” when he talks about China and intellectual property. They do steal it, and it is wrong. But it is what it is right now.

My degree came from University pf Louisville. While it is in civil engineering, we studied supply chains and economics and shtuff. What is evident is that a trade war is a knife fight. You pretty much cut each other until one bleeds out. We get ****** by China pretty hard, but we did the same to them and continue to do so.

If you’re alright with hurting industry here even worse than competition does then maybe high tariffs and trade wars are for you. SE Asia can do things faster and cheaper than we can and is better equipped to weather an economic storm than we are stateside. The fact of the matter is that the current federal policies are not good for the U.S. Both on trade and environmental.

I won’t start there because what’s-his-face will probably call me some overedjumacated engineer, and make the assumption I don’t do anything actually in the field. The U.S is not going back to its prime industrial age from the 1870s-1970s any time soon. No policy can dictate that short of Mao/Xi Jinping style economic dictation.

I’ll leave this before the thread is locked.

 

[Jhenderson]

Self righteous indignation...

Cause I was totally old enough to vote in 1991 yup. All my fault again yep.

How about ya look up George bush sr. Trip to China and trade deals, maybe get some education instead of opinions

You, as in the PNW electorate. When did you start voting? Or should I ask, have you ever voted? Your friends and neighbors voted in the crew who for all intents and purposes shut down logging for decades. Tariffs with China won’t kill the industry. Closing the big mills was the death of it. Selling high grade to export markets is just life support. If you folks fought for the mills decades ago the export market would just be gravy. Blaming tariffs for the problem is like saying someone died from chemotheropy.

 

[Jhenderson]

To preface-I agree with you (the Gyppo’s Gyppo) on most of your points. At the time of the 1991 election I was 5. I agree with the definite Trump voter worried about “MAGA” when he talks about China and intellectual property. They do steal it, and it is wrong. But it is what it is right now.

My degree came from University pf Louisville. While it is in civil engineering, we studied supply chains and economics and shtuff. What is evident is that a trade war is a knife fight. You pretty much cut each other until one bleeds out. We get ****ed by China pretty hard, but we did the same to them and continue to do so.

If you’re alright with hurting industry here even worse than competition does then maybe high tariffs and trade wars are for you. SE Asia can do things faster and cheaper than we can and is better equipped to weather an economic storm than we are stateside. The fact of the matter is that the current federal policies are not good for the U.S. Both on trade and environmental.

I won’t start there because what’s-his-face will probably call me some overedjumacated engineer, and make the assumption I don’t do anything actually in the field. The U.S is not going back to its prime industrial age from the 1870s-1970s any time soon. No policy can dictate that short of Mao/Xi Jinping style economic dictation.

I’ll leave this before the thread is locked.

Educated people rarely resort to name calling so I’ll assume it’s the school of hard knocks you attended. Tell us all about the facts behind your declarations on environmental and trade policies that are bad for the United States. Please be specific as to policy changes and the actual results, not predictions or opinions.

 

[madhatte]

Y'all best be civil or I swear I'll nuke this thread from orbit.

 

[northmanlogging]

You, as in the PNW electorate. When did you start voting? Or should I ask, have you ever voted? Your friends and neighbors voted in the crew who for all intents and purposes shut down logging for decades. Tariffs with China won’t kill the industry. Closing the big mills was the death of it. Selling high grade to export markets is just life support. If you folks fought for the mills decades ago the export market would just be gravy. Blaming tariffs for the problem is like saying someone died from chemotheropy.

Yer sure quick to lay blame.

The big mills closed as a result of the spotted owl case circa 1991-4?, ending big lumber and the eventual decline into managed stands as well as much more efficient mills as a whole, ironically, we produce more now with less mills. Maybe not on the east coast, but certainly here.

a quick search will tell you that at the time the 9th circuit was largely populated by Reagan and Bush apointees.

The way I vote is irrelevant, as I have grown a lot in the last 30 years, but i will say Clinton, Perot, and Bush were on the ticket. And my first memories involve Iran, hostages, and Carter throwing the election to prevent war.

Seriously though, you need to stop assuming and blaming folks as a whole, it's not healthy or wise.

Trade works both ways, the us is screwed and has been for 30 or more years, pulling the plug and threatening war against a stronger larger foreign nations is less than wise, in fact its stupid and infantile.

 

[catbuster]

Educated people rarely resort to name calling so I’ll assume it’s the school of hard knocks you attended. Tell us all about the facts behind your declarations on environmental and trade policies that are bad for the United States. Please be specific as to policy changes and the actual results, not predictions or opinions.

For clarity’s sake, I went to Crestwood Elementary School, the South Oldham Middle School followed by South Oldham High School. I graduated there in 2005 with a 3.77 GPA. Then I went to University of Louisville’s Speed School of Engineering. I got out of there with a 2.79 GPA, and had passed the FE by the time I got out with a B.S in Civil Engineering with emphasis on geotechnical and environmental engineering. The last school I went to was University of Kentucky for some P.E continuing education time. I am not uneducated, though I have spent some time, many summers in high school and college in the school of hard knocks and continue as I run my own company. I’m not trying to make this a “show off what you got” competition, but would you care to share your educational background?

Here’s an example of policy and how it effects industry/trade. Let’s talk about diesel exhaust emissions regulation, particularly in off-road applications.

Here in the States, we are currently governed under the TIER system, brought by CARB, EPA, and engine makers (Cummins, Caterpillar, Isuzu, Kubota, etc.) The TIER system put Detroit Diesel out of the off-road market for good. What I find interesting is TIER is not much of a carbon regulator-mind you, nothing to curb the greenhouse effect-as it is a limit on NOx gases and particulate matter. Diesel engines do emit particulate matter and nitrous oxides, but emit marginal amounts of volatile organic compounds or ozone as gasoline powered engines do, which is where most of your smog and air pollution that makes it difficult to breathe come from. I can explain the chemistry if you’d like.

TIER 1-3 were mostly easy to do through engine design. They were rolled out between 1998 and 2004. They’re the big reason Caterpillar came up with the 3406E from the 3406C and then made it the C-15 and C-16. It drove most of the changes in product lines not so much in production advancements as it did drivetrain changes. TIER 3 machines were, and many of them still are, though 7-10 years old as TIER 4 was rolled out between 2008 and 2011, still very reliable and productive machines. They are easily worked on, and the U.S dominated the market on construction and forestry equipment. I own about $8M worth of TIER 3 stuff. The Caterpillar 330D L is still my favorite excavator I’ve ever run, but that’s beside the point.

TIER 4 was split into two parts. TIER 4 phase A (TIER 4 Interim) was complete in 2011, where TIER 4 B (TIER 4 Final) was complete in 2015. With TIER 4, it moved beyond efficiency and design improvments. Additional systems such as diesel particulate filters and selective catalytic reduction. In order to work properly, a DPF system must regenerate, or to say burn itself out. In order to do this, the engine must first derate its power, lowering production, then raise exhaust gas temperatures enough to burn the accumulated material from the filter. In ahort, you use more fuel and lower the operating efficiency, as well as add another system, monitored by electronics not everyone can work on, to fail. SCR systems do not require as much maintenance, but use another consumable-diesel exhaust fluid, also known as DEF or AddBlue in certain areas. The components of DEF are caustic, urea is the primary component, and it eats the SCR and related systems alive, as well as adding another system to fail.

By comparison, few countries I hear a lot of modern politicians say are ripping us off have regulations like this in place. Because of tbis, they produce basic, poorly engineered and inefficient engines that burn a lot of fuel and don’g produce a lot of power. Take a look at China’s XCMG company, PowerPlus from there or the Hyundai machines I see cropping up here and there stateside. Yet the standard of living is low, and the air quality is awful. Look at photos of Los Angeles in the 1970s, prime industrial time for that city. There is usually so much smog you can’t see the Hollywood hills from downtown. The quality of living here has improved, though be it we lost market share. It’s not always possible to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Jhenderson]

Yer sure quick to lay blame.

The big mills closed as a result of the spotted owl case circa 1991-4?, ending big lumber and the eventual decline into managed stands as well as much more efficient mills as a whole, ironically, we produce more now with less mills. Maybe not on the east coast, but certainly here.

a quick search will tell you that at the time the 9th circuit was largely populated by Reagan and Bush apointees.

The way I vote is irrelevant, as I have grown a lot in the last 30 years, but i will say Clinton, Perot, and Bush were on the ticket. And my first memories involve Iran, hostages, and Carter throwing the election to prevent war.

Seriously though, you need to stop assuming and blaming folks as a whole, it's not healthy or wise.

Trade works both ways, the us is screwed and has been for 30 or more years, pulling the plug and threatening war against a stronger larger foreign nations is less than wise, in fact its stupid and infantile.

Carter “ Throw the election” ? You’re kidding right? Your solution to unfair trade practices is capitulation? I guess we have nothing else to discuss.
Ps. Just for informational purposes look up the “BLUE CARD” system for court appointments before you make statements about the 9th circuit.

 

[Jhenderson]

For clarity’s sake, I went to Crestwood Elementary School, the South Oldham Middle School followed by South Oldham High School. I graduated there in 2005 with a 3.77 GPA. Then I went to University of Louisville’s Speed School of Engineering. I got out of there with a 2.79 GPA, and had passed the FE by the time I got out with a B.S in Civil Engineering with emphasis on geotechnical and environmental engineering. The last school I went to was University of Kentucky for some P.E continuing education time. I am not uneducated, though I have spent some time, many summers in high school and college in the school of hard knocks and continue as I run my own company. I’m not trying to make this a “show off what you got” competition, but would you care to share your educational background?

Here’s an example of policy and how it effects industry/trade. Let’s talk about diesel exhaust emissions regulation, particularly in off-road applications.

Here in the States, we are currently governed under the TIER system, brought by CARB, EPA, and engine makers (Cummins, Caterpillar, Isuzu, Kubota, etc.) The TIER system put Detroit Diesel out of the off-road market for good. What I find interesting is TIER is not much of a carbon regulator-mind you, nothing to curb the greenhouse effect-as it is a limit on NOx gases and particulate matter. Diesel engines do emit particulate matter and nitrous oxides, but emit marginal amounts of volatile organic compounds or ozone as gasoline powered engines do, which is where most of your smog and air pollution that makes it difficult to breathe come from. I can explain the chemistry if you’d like.

TIER 1-3 were mostly easy to do through engine design. They were rolled out between 1998 and 2004. They’re the big reason Caterpillar came up with the 3406E from the 3406C and then made it the C-15 and C-16. It drove most of the changes in product lines not so much in production advancements as it did drivetrain changes. TIER 3 machines were, and many of them still are, though 7-10 years old as TIER 4 was rolled out between 2008 and 2011, still very reliable and productive machines. They are easily worked on, and the U.S dominated the market on construction and forestry equipment. I own about $8M worth of TIER 3 stuff. The Caterpillar 330D L is still my favorite excavator I’ve ever run, but that’s beside the point.

TIER 4 was split into two parts. TIER 4 phase A (TIER 4 Interim) was complete in 2011, where TIER 4 B (TIER 4 Final) was complete in 2015. With TIER 4, it moved beyond efficiency and design improvments. Additional systems such as diesel particulate filters and selective catalytic reduction. In order to work properly, a DPF system must regenerate, or to say burn itself out. In order to do this, the engine must first derate its power, lowering production, then raise exhaust gas temperatures enough to burn the accumulated material from the filter. In ahort, you use more fuel and lower the operating efficiency, as well as add another system, monitored by electronics not everyone can work on, to fail. SCR systems do not require as much maintenance, but use another consumable-diesel exhaust fluid, also known as DEF or AddBlue in certain areas. The components of DEF are caustic, urea is the primary component, and it eats the SCR and related systems alive, as well as adding another system to fail.

By comparison, few countries I hear a lot of modern politicians say are ripping us off have regulations like this in place. Because of tbis, they produce basic, poorly engineered and inefficient engines that burn a lot of fuel and don’g produce a lot of power. Take a look at China’s XCMG company, PowerPlus from there or the Hyundai machines I see cropping up here and there stateside. Yet the standard of living is low, and the air quality is awful. Look at photos of Los Angeles in the 1970s, prime industrial time for that city. There is usually so much smog you can’t see the Hollywood hills from downtown. The quality of living here has improved, though be it we lost market share. It’s not always possible to have your cake and eat it too.

Rather that a tutorial on a subject I’m probably far more experienced with than you, I expected examples of where the current administration has erred with their policies on trade and the environment as you declared in the post I referred to. Any particular reason you couldn’t address those points?

 

[catbuster]

Rather that a tutorial on a subject I’m probably far more experienced with than you, I expected examples of where the current administration has erred with their policies on trade and the environment as you declared in the post I referred to. Any particular reason you couldn’t address those points?

You didn’t ask for them. Would you care to answer my question? What are you vastly more experienced in than I am? What do I need a tutorial on?

You don’t have any answers. You’re starting to sound a lot like Trump on defense right now. That’s not a good thing.

I’ll get to the trade/environment policies when I get off work.

 

[northmanlogging]

Carter “ Throw the election” ? You’re kidding right? Your solution to unfair trade practices is capitulation? I guess we have nothing else to discuss.
Ps. Just for informational purposes look up the “BLUE CARD” system for court appointments before you make statements about the 9th circuit.

Gods damn yer thick arn't ya.

Negotiations take time, period.

Know what I repeat, you to stupid to debate with, its like educating a brick, waste a lot of time yet all it knows is wall wall wall

 

[Jhenderson]

You didn’t ask for them. Would you care to answer my question? What are you vastly more experienced in than I am? What do I need a tutorial on?

You don’t have any answers. You’re starting to sound a lot like Trump on defense right now. That’s not a good thing.

I’ll get to the trade/environment policies when I get off work.

I refer you to post # 26. As for being more experienced with tier 3 and 4 emissions standards I have over 500,000 miles in tier 3 and 4 vehicles performing all the service on those systems. While I gave up renewing my ASE cert long ago I still moonlight several nights and weekends a month in a friends shop servicing among other things the local Vol Fire Co trucks, including rescue vehicles which are tier 4 fords. Where do you want to start? DOF, SCR, DEF dosing pumps and nozzles, EGR systems along with their associated coolers? VGTs, common rail high pressure pumps and injectors? I eagerly await your response.
Ps. It wasn’t emissions that put DD out of the off- road market. It was a better mousetrap in the for of a Cummins BT that did them in long before diesel emissions were a factor. Quieter, lower fuel consumption, and longevity for starting points.

 

[Jhenderson]

Gods damn yer thick arn't ya.

Negotiations take time, period.

Know what I repeat, you to stupid to debate with, its like educating a brick, waste a lot of time yet all it knows is wall wall wall

We are in negotiations. Just because you don’t like the style doesn’t mean they’re not ongoing.

 

[Gologit]

Y'all best be civil or I swear I'll nuke this thread from orbit.

Please do.

 

[madhatte]

When it passes the "three warnings" threshold, I will.

 

[northmanlogging]

Please do.

so... Do you miss the fun and excitement of being a mod around here, or is retirement all its cracked up to be

 

[Gologit]

so... Do you miss the fun and excitement of being a mod around here, or is retirement all its cracked up to be

Well, first of all it wasn't fun. Secondly, it sure as hell wasn't exciting. Think about it for a minute...having to read every damn one of the posts in the Homeowner's Help section and still keep some shred of sanity..

Or, having to plow through your 359th "what saw should I buy" post for the week.

Then there's the eternal arguments...as in "my saw won't cut straight and what should I do" and you have to read them because eventually they turn into a brawl and you have to referee.
The "what saw" threads weren't nearly as bad as the "how should I fall this tree" lunacies.

Madhatte does it right. He stays pretty much in Foresty & Logging. I don't blame him a bit.

Retirement? It's what you make of it. I'm enjoying mine.
Working? I miss the scenery, the sense of accomplishment, the problem solving, and I truly miss the good people I worked with but there's a whole lot about it that I don't miss at all. I'm glad to be done with it.

 

[madhatte]

Madhatte does it right. He stays pretty much in Foresty & Logging. I don't blame him a bit.

I know my people. If there's one thing I expect of myself as a mod here, it's that my personal opinions are divorced entirely from my Mod duties. The real-world implication is that when I show up at a GTG, nobody has reason to question my integrity. I'm not a keyboard warrior. Loggerfolk can smell BS from a mile away. I'm a lowly forester and I know my place.

However, I am obligated to respond to the stuff that gets flagged for all of us mods, like spam, which is easy to kill once we see it. Posts marked or reported "Spam" allow me to flag and delete all of the poster's posts preemptively. If that sounds like an abuse of power... well, don't spam. I have often sent posters who I think might be legit but merely stupid a note saying "hey if you want to sell stuff here there are some rules". I have seldom seen a response.

There's also a lot of grey area, which is most of the work. A specific scenario which I have seen many times: Poster A hates Poster B and continually tries to goad them into a fight but is very careful to not violate any of the board's rules. Poster B tries for a long long time to take the High Road because morals and all but eventually has JUST HAD IT and posts something that clearly violates a board rule, or maybe several. Who do I clobber, and when? Well, if I've done my job right, Poster A never gets a chance to push Poster B to that point. I try to jump in before it gets there. If, however, it does get there, I might throw a warning to both, or to the poster who I think is more volatile, or the poster who I think is more guilty. I'm most interested in maintaining neutrality and peace here. I believe that disagreement is an essential and useful tool for learning, so there's no way I'm going to respond to every "he said she said" complaint with a ban. I encourage each and every member of this board to review the rules that you agreed to when you signed on as a member here because each and every violation of those rules has the potential to be a pain in my ass.

I promise you all that I won't kill a post or remove a poster because I disagree with them personally. This is a community and I am here to make sure that it functions as one. My feelings are mine, and you should never be subject to them. Unless, of course, we are drinking beers around the campfire at a GTG. In that case, you're gonna have to support your points same as me. It pays to do your homework. Just sayin'.