Increasing Splitter Cycle Time Calculations - Speeco 35 Ton

[timothykamp]

I am currently using the popular Huskee/Speeco 35 Ton logsplitter. It's been great for me with one exception - high cycle times. I'm a sophmore in mechanical engineering at Purdue and found some time to put basic hydraulic principles to the test - and figuring out some stuff about my splitter.

Specs.
12.5 HP Briggs
16 GPM pump
5" x 24" Cylinder
70,000lb max force



Here's an Excel screenshot with my calculations. Of particular interest are the differences between cylinder diameter and cycle time. I realize that this is calculated, and probably not actual, but I'd be interested in finding out the time it actually takes on a stock 5" cylinder. I'll try to measure it when I'm home splitting next weekend.

After checking into this, I'm considering swapping out my 5" cylinder with a 3" one and cutting my time down to 1/3 of what it originally was. I'll still keep the 5" for splitting big stuff, but 10 1/2 tons should be enough for splitting small stuff. Thoughs?

I'm looking at the Lion 3000 PSI 2.5" from Northern and the Lion 3000 PSI 3", also from Northern

Email me if you want the excel file to play with the formulas and such

 

[drmiller100]

something is wrong with your math.

i'm guessing something with the volume to gallons or something.

as an example, real world, and my math, says 30 gpm on a 4 inch ram, with 18 inch stroke is 7 or 8 seconds. your math is about twice the speed of mine.

a few thoughts. if you change the definition of cycle time to be "the time it takes a person to split 5 pieces of wood divided by 5", then an autocycle cuts the time in half.

also, do you really burn 22 inch wood? if not, then change the cycle to be the lenght of wood plus 2.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

something is wrong with your math.

i'm guessing something with the volume to gallons or something.

as an example, real world, and my math, says 30 gpm on a 4 inch ram, with 18 inch stroke is 7 or 8 seconds. your math is about twice the speed of mine.

a few thoughts. if you change the definition of cycle time to be "the time it takes a person to split 5 pieces of wood divided by 5", then an autocycle cuts the time in half.

also, do you really burn 22 inch wood? if not, then change the cycle to be the lenght of wood plus 2.

Nothing is wrong with the math....It's perfect....He's thinking the right way too....higher pressure thinner cylinder make the same job faster....
in combination with this regenerative valve he can keep his forceful 5" and get the speed of a 2"
see my earlier post Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.....
Pretty amazing huh??!!!!!

 

[046]

got tired of waiting for someone to call me back on buying a regen valve. service from these folks are among the worst I've ever experienced.

now I'm going the old fashion way... scored a 22+ gpm pump on craigslist for $25. hopefully I'll be mounting soon. but first I've got to fabricate mountings and purchase a 3/4in hydraulic hose.

my 12.5 hp should pull the larger pump with no problems.

Nothing is wrong with the math....It's perfect....He's thinking the right way too....higher pressure thinner cylinder make the same job faster....
in combination with this regenerative valve he can keep his forceful 5" and get the speed of a 2"
see my earlier post Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.....
Pretty amazing huh??!!!!!

 

[timothykamp]

@ AKKAMAAN

How hard would it be to retrofit that to a 35 ton speeco?

If you get some time would you mind throwing together a quick diagram of exactly how that valve works in a splitter type setup? I looked around and there isn't a lot of info to be had.

@ drmiller

after adjusting wood length to 18" times are as follows
2.51
3.7
6.64
10.56
15.61

 

[AKKAMAAN]

I am currently using the popular Huskee/Speeco 35 Ton logsplitter. It's been great for me with one exception - high cycle times. I'm a sophmore in mechanical engineering at Purdue and found some time to put basic hydraulic principles to the test - and figuring out some stuff about my splitter.

Email me if you want the excel file to play with the formulas and such

Like your spreed sheet calculus....here is my little Excel program that can help with the math for this regenerative valve.....dont use keybord .....just scroll on the spin buttons....have fun.....

 

[AKKAMAAN]

@ AKKAMAAN

How hard would it be to retrofit that to a 35 ton speeco?

Basically just som plumbing....hoses fittings....
but first, if you have a 2 stage pump....it's not going to work well if pump kickdown to low flow at 900psi...so you should have a one stage pump at about 10GPM...
second 5x2x24 cyl will add a flow of 84gpm to your 16gpm=100gpm... that enourmous flow will generate a lot of heat, and its basically unrealistic....there are regen valves up to about 275gpm, but a 0.9 sec stroke cycle is not what you vant on a 24" cylinder....it could be dangerous...16 gpm is already a very high flow for a wood splitter, not bad to handle when you use a 5" cylinder bore...
my "perfect" setup is a 4x2x24 (or 20) cylinder 10gpm pump, single stage of course, 18.8 ton at 3000psi and a 2.0 fast cycle time. if you play with my calculator, u'll figure your own setup....
Heard SUN didnt want to deal with retail customers, so try to find loacl dealer thru SUN, my local is in Portland OR, They said they ship same or next day.....I'm sure they'll help you out if you send them specs of a realistic setup...oke:


Hydra-Power Systems, Inc.

5445 NE 122nd Avenue
P.O. Box 20549
Portland, OR 97230
Tel: (503) 777-3361
Fax: (503) 775-6447
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.hydrapowersystems.com

 

[046]

you heard correct.. mfg will not even bother to talk to you.

my local dealer will not even return calls because I'm not a commercial user. this has convinced me ... they don't want my business.

Heard SUN didnt want to deal with retail customers, so try to find loacl dealer thru SUN,

 

[AKKAMAAN]

you heard correct.. mfg will not even bother to talk to you.

my local dealer will not even return calls because I'm not a commercial user. this has convinced me ... they don't want my business.

try this dealer in Portland OR, f it dont work tell me I'll start a commercial dealer ship

 

[AKKAMAAN]

It is pretty amazing!

This valve sounds like it going to put a big dent in two speed pump sales.

Roughly how much does this valve cost?

Is it possible to stop the regen function until the hydraulic oil warms up a bit?

It-s already used in many of the more expensive fire wood processores.....

up to 3000psi rating you get it in aluminium housing, then it's steel for 3000+psi.

Valve starts around 150$...a 40gpm valve is about 170$ from this company in Portland OR.

you cant stop the re-gen and wait for oil to warm up.....and there is no need for it....

You will get the best of this valve if cylinder is customized to fit your preferences. a 4x2x24 cylinder will stroke 4 times faster on re-gen than regular.....if rod diameter increases, thicker, that ratio go down, and vice versa.....and stroke force will act the opposite way....
maybe a 4.5x2.5x20 is your perfect cylinder setup....have it made at your local machine shop.....also choose a realistic pump size....you dont need a 36gpm pump with this valve...I also recommend you to use 3000psi as you max system pressure....that will help you save weight and money on your home build project.....
if you are familiar with Excel spreed sheets...try this to play with the math of it....

 

[046]

$170 regen valve, larger hoses and a new single stage pump... that could easily add up to $400 range.

just did a craigslist score, two new single stage pumps. 12 gpm and 22 gpm. I'm going with 22 gpm pump and new 3/4in hydraulic hose combo first. original valve accepts 3/4in hose, my costs to upgrade should end up aprox. $60.

hopefully this will get me in 8-10 sec cycle times. is it ok to use a single stage pump, instead of a two stage using a standard valve?

It-s already used in many of the more expensive fire wood processores.....

up to 3000psi rating you get it in aluminium housing, then it's steel for 3000+psi.

Valve starts around 150$...a 40gpm valve is about 170$ from this company in Portland OR.

you cant stop the re-gen and wait for oil to warm up.....and there is no need for it....

You will get the best of this valve if cylinder is customized to fit your preferences. a 4x2x24 cylinder will stroke 4 times faster on re-gen than regular.....if rod diameter increases, thicker, that ratio go down, and vice versa.....and stroke force will act the opposite way....
maybe a 4.5x2.5x20 is your perfect cylinder setup....have it made at your local machine shop.....also choose a realistic pump size....you dont need a 36gpm pump with this valve...I also recommend you to use 3000psi as you max system pressure....that will help you save weight and money on your home build project.....
if you are familiar with Excel spreed sheets...try this to play with the math of it....

 

[kevin j]

046, your 22 gpm (assuming this is actual flow at engine speed) pump at 2500 psi is 35 hp..... that is the reason for two stage. high flow low pressure = lower hp. low flow, high pressure, still lower hp. high flow at high pressure is big hp.

regen valves are great, especially in the smallest splitters where the cost price point is critical, The prince valve especially adds little to the cost and saves the cost of two stage pump. Adding a separate inline Sun valve negates the cost savings.

but there are limitations and drawbacks:
-do the calcs carefully as a small rod can give you quite high speeds.
-The line sizes must handle the regen flow properly.
-Regen ony works in EXTEND mode. retract is still limited by pump flow

k

 

[Truchaos]

After checking into this, I'm considering swapping out my 5" cylinder with a 3" one and cutting my time down to 1/3 of what it originally was. I'll still keep the 5" for splitting big stuff, but 10 1/2 tons should be enough for splitting small stuff. Thoughs?

I know this is an old post but thought I would comment on the theory. I'm an electrical person and have little knowledge of hydraulics, so I have the following question. Reducing the cylinder diameter (while keeping the pump volume the same) may shorten the cycle time but it also greatly reduces the log splitting force. So using a smaller cylinder turns the splitter from a 35 ton to something like a 10 tun splitter which cycles faster. Doesn't it?

 

[flewism]

Yes,

 

[cantoo]

Just like the saying Bigger is always better. For easy splitting woods there is no need for high tonnage splitters. I have a couple of loads of ash and 1 of maple logs, the ash splits easy but is stringy so no need for big tonnage but a fast stroke is good because most splits are a full cycle. The maple was alot of knarly stuff so more tonnage and less full cycles. At least that's why I tell my wife I need 3 different splitters for. If I get time this winter I will customize the new speeco and it'll likely be the keeper one.