Injecting Tree-age; quickjet or tree-IV?

[TominKY]

I have several medium to large white ash that I plan to treat with EB (Tree-age) using the Arbor-jet system. My question - is it reasonably doable with the Quickjet system, or do I need to spring an additional $300 and get the tree-IV kit? Any other recommendations? Hate to say it, but I feel like they kind of have us over a barrel on this EAB thing. Can't see where the sum of those parts could cost close to $700 to produce, but if they have the only game in town, I guess you have to play. Same goes for the Tree-age - this has to be an absolute bonanza for the manufacturers. Oh well, unless I want a whole lot of firewood this winter, looks like this is the route to go.

Looking forward to hearing some first hand accounts on the Arbor-jet. Thanks in advance!

 

[Raintree]

If you are not doing large volume apps. The Q Gun may work for your needs.
http://www.treecarescience.com/treecare-products/q-gun/?cat=tools-equipment
I think it runs about $225.

 

[TominKY]

Thanks Raintree, I'll check that out. Looks similar to the Quickjet. Kind of intriguing that it does not require plugs. Anyone out there with some practical experience with it?

The biggest single trunk tree on the lot is about 25" DBH. I also have another multi-stemmed specimen with four trunks of about 13" DBH each, so I am thinking that it would be treated like four separate 13" trees. There are a couple of others in the 14" DBH range. Not sure if that is considered a large volume app or not.

The lot is covered with many other smaller ash trees that I am going to let the borers have for dinner. Thought about hitting them with some Imadacloprid, but probably putting off the inevitable for little if any gain.

 

[ATH]

1) I have found the Quick-Jet to be the biggest waste of money I every tried to save. Wish I would have just gone straight to the Tree IV. I agree...those parts do not justify the cost, but it is what it is. I has paid me back just fine...but I am getting paid to treat trees, not just doing my own. Still think the Quick-Jet is not (quick).

2) Not sure the Q Gun is any better than the Quick-Jet. It is designed better, stronger components, and between the two that is the one I'd choose if I had to.....but I wouldn't if I don't have to.

3) Rainbow's Q-Connect would be the other choice before either the Quick Jet or Q Gun for me. If I didn't already have the Tree IV, I'd weigh between the Q Connect and Tree IV: http://www.treecarescience.com/treecare-products/q-connect/?cat=tools-equipment It is built better than the Tree IV, but they aren't giving those away either (costs more than Tree IV). I also like the fact it is easier to use the injectors in multiples less than 4...not a big deal with the Tree IV, but it is nice. Not using the plugs sounds good...at $0.50 a piece, they do add up! But nothing leaks out of the plugs either. I have only one time experience with the Q Connect as a demo, and a little leaked out of the holes....not a deal breaker, just something I noted. Less likely to blow off some bark with the Q-Connect (if an Arbor Plug is not set right, you can get product that seeps behind the plug, under the bark and damages a small area). If you like the Tree IV but no plugs, you can get it with Stinger needles instead of Viper needles. You might call to ask if they'll ship it without the viper needles including the stingers instead and maybe reduce cost??? (would still cost more than the standard kit, but maybe they won't make you but Viper needles???)

4) With some of the relatively smaller trees you have, soil drenched imidacloprid may not be a bad option. If you start EARLY, it works. Use the highest labeled rate (most labels now allow for a doubled rate on trees larger than 15"). Apply right at the base of the trunk (dig a drench around the root flare and pour it in there or inject it right against the trunk). TREE-age does work better, no doubt about that...but it costs a lot more - both to get started and to apply. It sounds like you have quite a few trees, so the thing you would need to watch is your maximum product per acre with a soil drench.

PS: are you a homeowner, or arborist? TREE-age is restricted use, meaning you need a pesticide applicator's license to legally purchase...

 

[TominKY]

ATH, I'm not a pro, but I have researched this quite a bit, I do have a RUP license, and I apply my own pesticides. I'm quite capable with most applications, just haven't had to do any injections on a scale like this. thanks.

 

[TominKY]

Assuming I am injecting an average sized ash (say 12" DBH) in good health, recent rains with good soil moisture, around 9 AM in the morning on a sunny day, can anyone give me a ball park on how long the uptake should be for each injection site? If I'm going to have to be standing there squeezing the Quickjet for 30 minutes per injection, then it's kind of a no-brainer to go with the tree-IV. Thanks.

 

[Raintree]

We should establish if you are injecting to eradicate a known infestation or just applying a preventive measure?

 

[TominKY]

Raintree, I guess you could say both. The trees I plan to treat appear to be healthy, with full canopies and no obvious evidence of infestation. However, EAB is active in the neighborhood with many trees further up the street already dead or declining. I have several other trees on my lot that are showing signs of infestation, but I do not plan to treat those. Instead, I will opt to remove them, as they are not high value trees. I do realize that it is quite possible that even the trees that appear healthy may already have EAB in them. That is why I want to move on this now.

 

[ATH]

you have a good plan - to start now, and to not treat everything.

Buy the Tree IV...I don't use it for much else, but I have used it a few other times. If EAB is just starting in the area, you will pay for it if you are providing service for other people. Timing: if it goes in quickly, it takes maybe 10-15 minutes per tree - but that would be with 4 injection sites on a 14" tree.... Other times it takes 30-40 minutes. (I am using 5ml/inch of dbh on trees under 15" and 10ml/in on larger trees.)

 

[Raintree]

ATH is more involved in treating EAB then I am. The insect is still a few counties away so I'm new to the show. From what I understand injecting healthy trees with Emamectin benzoate ($$$) in high pressure areas is advised. Then switching to high rate of Imidacloprid for Spring injections. Agree with ATH, Tree IV or Q-connect system is the way to go. Talking to my applicators today, they said the Q-Gun needs a lot of effort & time to inject.

 

[ATH]

I honestly do not see any need to inject imidacloprid into the trunk for EAB - I know others disagree, but just sharing my thoughts based on personal experience and what the research has shown. It is as effective when soil applied...per separate OSU, MSU (and I think Purdue ) studies. Before imidacloprid trunk injections, I'd reduce the rate of Tree-AGE or maybe reduce frequency from 2 years to 3 years. Only times have run across a situation where it makes sense to trunk inject imidacloprid has been with hemlock wooly adelgid (that are controlled for multiple years by it) where we couldn't soil apply (some were too close to water, some didn't have any soil at the base, then we were over our per acre limit for soil application so switched to trunk injection).

 

[TominKY]

Not using the plugs sounds good...at $0.50 a piece, they do add up! But nothing leaks out of the plugs either. I have only one time experience with the Q Connect as a demo, and a little leaked out of the holes....not a deal breaker, just something I noted. Less likely to blow off some bark with the Q-Connect (if an Arbor Plug is not set right, you can get product that seeps behind the plug, under the bark and damages a small area). If you like the Tree IV but no plugs, you can get it with Stinger needles instead of Viper needles. You might call to ask if they'll ship it without the viper needles including the stingers instead and maybe reduce cost??? (would still cost more than the standard kit, but maybe they won't make you but Viper needles???)

ATH, using the Stinger needles with no plugs sounds pretty good - the cost for the plugs does add up! If this works, I am curious why more of the pros wouldn't move in that direction to reduce costs. I guess there is concern with the product not staying where you injected it. What about using some other type of less expensive plug after the injection? Something as simple as a wooden dowel tapped into the hole to plug it up? Or would there be an issue with this introducing rot in that area?

Thanks for the informative replies. Going to order my equipment and product today and get going on this!

 

[TominKY]

Another quick question: Looks like I have to buy the Arborplugs in quantities of 100, at least for the yellow (small) ones. Can you just use the black ones for both smaller and larger trees? I realize it creates a slightly larger wound, but it sure would simplify things. I probably won't need near as many of the yellow ones, and those can only be bought in quantities of 100. Wish I could buy 50 or 25 of them.

 

[ATH]

You can use either size for any size tree - like you said larger hole in small trees is not ideal. If the smallest trees you are going to treat are 13-14", I think you are fine with the black plugs.

I don't go through the yellow ones too quick either...

 

[TominKY]

Is there any difference in rate of uptake with the smaller plugs? If not, then logic would seem to indicate that the smaller plugs would be the way to go to minimize the size of the wounds.

 

[ATH]

It seems a little slower with smaller plugs. But I haven't done a side-by-side comparison. It would take a number of trees to get a good read because 2 trees of the same size next to each other injected at the same time uptake a different rates!