Inside the 372XP X-TORQ

[WoodChuck'r]

Heh. It's kinda like my Ford Ranger. It's a 4.0L V6. I wanna get an exhaust for it, which will increase it's power (not by much, but enough) and sound a little bit better. I'm on a Ranger forum and figured I should do headers as well. Not racing headers or anything, just a basic street upgrade. I was checking out some vids on YouTube of similar Rangers with a similar setup. The funny thing is, even though street headers make it sound badass, dyno results on the forum consistently show torque and horsepower loss when the header is used in every application unless the owner has a supercharger!!

The only real gain is throttle response and that kick ass sound. But before I did any research I was listening to the sounds in the bids and I was way excited about getting headers for my truck. So much for that idea!!

 

[MCW]

I was a little amazed at this point because the speed was almost on par with my snellerized 390.

Good thread and Brad is certainly excellent to deal with, even from the other side of the world

On a short note, and I have a couple of Snellerized 390's, just lean into the 390's a bit more and you'll probably find the new 372 won't keep up. I originally thought my modded 7900's were very very close, until you start leaning on them - that's when the extra cc's and torque kick in. Same goes for the 390's vs. my stock Husky 3120. All seems equal until you realise you can basically sit on the 3120 and it will still pull the same revs in the cut. In reality my stock 3120 eats my 390's. No question which saw I'd rather cut trees down with all day

Of course I could be wrong, and in that case I may be in touch with Brad for a new 372

 

[ChipMonger]

Good thread and Brad is certainly excellent to deal with, even from the other side of the world

On a short note, and I have a couple of Snellerized 390's, just lean into the 390's a bit more and you'll probably find the new 372 won't keep up. I originally thought my modded 7900's were very very close, until you start leaning on them - that's when the extra cc's and torque kick in. Same goes for the 390's vs. my stock Husky 3120. All seems equal until you realise you can basically sit on the 3120 and it will still pull the same revs in the cut. In reality my stock 3120 eats my 390's. No question which saw I'd rather cut trees down with all day

Of course I could be wrong, and in that case I may be in touch with Brad for a new 372

Matt-

I agree, theres no replacement for displacement:hmm3grin2orange:...Its a rare opportunity that im in wood big enough to make the 390 shine like i know it does. I had a couple jobs where the 390 made perfect sense because of the size wood i was in. I'm loving this 372, its becoming a definite favorite. I only have approx 8 tanks through it and its steadily waking up, so we'll see what happens. In my opinion, this 372 is fast, has great torque, and for the majority of users plenty of saw for the majority of us...but then this thing called CAD comes into play and bungs everything up:biggrinbounce2:. I'll send it to you for a demo run but i need it back by Saturday early A.M. hows that work for you? lol

 

[MCW]

Matt-

I agree, theres no replacement for displacement:hmm3grin2orange:...Its a rare opportunity that im in wood big enough to make the 390 shine like i know it does. I had a couple jobs where the 390 made perfect sense because of the size wood i was in. I'm loving this 372, its becoming a definite favorite. I only have approx 8 tanks through it and its steadily waking up, so we'll see what happens. In my opinion, this 372 is fast, has great torque, and for the majority of users plenty of saw for the majority of us...but then this thing called CAD comes into play and bungs everything up:biggrinbounce2:. I'll send it to you for a demo run but i need it back by Saturday early A.M. hows that work for you? lol

Give me 6 months and it's a deal I know what you mean though, when you don't need those bigger saws you appreciate the smaller, lighter ones. My 79cc Makita was my go to saw for quite a while unless it was a 32" bar or over. Then I sold it but kept the top end which is where all the money and fun was

Damn that CAD...

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Yeah but a great limbing saw is a 7900 with a 16" bar and 8 pin rim.

 

[ChipMonger]

Give me 6 months and it's a deal I know what you mean though, when you don't need those bigger saws you appreciate the smaller, lighter ones. My 79cc Makita was my go to saw for quite a while unless it was a 32" bar or over. Then I sold it but kept the top end which is where all the money and fun was

Damn that CAD...

Very true. I dont consider the 390 heavy, but the nimbleness of the smaller saws is nice once in a while. Hope all is well in Australia. Id love to get down there and cut some of the wood you guys have down there, stringy bark, blue gum etc. That would be fun.

 

[mdavlee]

I couldn't tell much weight difference between a 372xpw and a 390 with half wrap. I ran both with 28" bars. I just used semi skip on the 372, and full comp on the 390.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

I couldn't tell much weight difference between a 372xpw and a 390 with half wrap. I ran both with 28" bars. I just used semi skip on the 372, and full comp on the 390.

What ever happened to your 576?? That must have fit right in re middle somewhere!

 

[mdavlee]

Blue ridge mark is the new owner of it. Yeah it was almost as heavy as the 390 with less power. It would be fine as a big saw in someone's lineup but it doesn't fit in as the small saw. Right now I'm using the 2171 as a limbing saw if I even pick it up. It hasn't been ran but about 2 minutes since the 660 got here. I'm hoping the stihl light bar will be here tomorrow or saturday to go on the 660 and I'll probably use it all the time for everything.

 

[blsnelling]

I think a lesson I've learned is "fast" is a relative thing! Some saws I've seen rev to the moon & sound real impressive, but at the expense of torque & real world power to pull a chain under load.....what do you think chucker? Therefore before & after video's make some sense..but u still don't know 4 certain unless u run them yourself....in many motor sports a dyno is used to quantify what the rider/driver feels..we need a dyno here as a standard to test builds!

I guess R&D! The good news is even if this was a total worst case scenario, a new saw doesn't break the bank! Hopefully folks like your self have the resources to make the customer whole while doing these type of mods, sort of an insurance plan and excellent business practice...the price of risk of such work! Be nice to give the customer a new saw until the true R&D is actually done & tested for some level of reliability...and he's not out a thing...and then consider the R&D as an investment so you can get a reliable and repeatable build that now can be marketed...

NOT being a expert of any kind! I think I would have gone with the standard porting with the "non strato" build to see whats available in that modification alone! The increase in flow capability has to make a difference....then go for the porting internally. (If someone wants to be the funding this with the aproach that the money or saws are true investments..with all the risks implied...so be it! But its a tough deal to make a habit of selling a service and then effectively doing the R&Don a customer saw, especially if they need it to make a living!)

Seen this before in the motorcycle world back in the late 1970's early 1980's! Took companies like 'Pro Circuit" to force the after market business into a level of professionalism that takes the risk away from the customer and provide repeatable and predictable performance gains from a marketed modification (Such as cam or cylinder head mods, and now those LA Sleeve type big bore kits pioneered by Powroll). Race research & reliability testing happens way before a customer sends an order.

Sorry guys, but sort of expected this, its a statistics game; and may this be a lesson to all involved!..still really cool to see the innovation as well as the pictures..no pain no gain! I guess having said all that, two consenting adults can do what they please, and we are all better for it here as Brad has enlightened many and those pictures are really cool!

lol...I guess I've seen the fastest 80cc limbing saw on the planet once...could probably cut 15 inch and down at 14k plus even under pressure! Actually made an 70cc mistake that way...myself with simply a random muffler mod (for testing purposes btw)! Point is a reference point from a stock saw shows the gains or losses..but even then you don't see how the power band has been changed. Research and development with the time and numbers to back up a mod is the right way vs. a random approach. Saw are cheap..There is no way in HELL I would send my motorcycle components to be ground on unless there was a proven track record on that particular mod. So at a minimum, before and after documentation is a form of track record that can prove or disprove an approach. Opening ports might move the power up the rpm range..or just allow more rpm's Without tuning devices such as power valve, pipes, etc its real hard..especially on piston port designs to have generic mods add power everywhere!...So you tell me what you really know when watching a video of a saw cutting a random block of wood? I'm not wishing anyone bad gas..I just want to see the R&D done before accepting cash for generic mods. I want to see before and afters on the specific mods BEFORE having folks send their means of making a living...I also want to see testing to give a sense of reliability change..that can only happen with testing in the field over a period of time. A solution is having customer funded and reporting in concert with folks like Brad, where up front its known that this is an R&D project with all the risks implied..and in return reliability testing & field use reporting, and a before test with a verifiable after test is done by the willing partner in the R&D project.


This is a rather accepting group here and ripe for the taking as this is a developing motor sport and many forget the lessons learn in other more developed forms of motor sports (That are being repeated here!)...or never learned them as many never participated in other forms! So this is this huge international forum to a whole new audience! Very powerful stuff. I have seen this before and wonder why we have to repeat it yet again...Yoshimura & Pro Circuit, Jack Roush and so many others in motorcycles, snowmobiles, and cars show how to play this game. We need to do the same here for those who modify for money..(as compared to the enthusiast who's knowingly hacking up a saw for fun..and if it doesn't work...who cares!)

Oh..BTW, any one can say.."yes its faster" and broad cast that in cyber space!..U know my first thoughts are going to be, by how much? And how do you know? Show me the numbers!

Another time proven way is..racing. That's a way to test mods vs. both stock and other guys. SO an answer to the question posed above could be...I took second place in class....XYZ Whatever against the following saws..and my times were...etc. And the saw that won was also built by the same guy who did mine!

What do u think guys..is that going to happen with these Strato saws mods?

I've seen it happen. Any saw will move a chain. Any saw can be easily made to free rev at high RPMs. But a saw that will pull an aggressive chain under heavy load and hold good RPMs - now that's real power.

Saws that turn high RPMs out of the wood and sound good are what most presume to be "good". Even if a saw is turning good RPMs in the wood, that doesn't say very much. How aggressive is the chain?? How hard is the saw being pushed?? The true question is how hard is the saw working in ratio to the RPMs it's holding while cutting.

The sound of a modded muffler and a saw free revving 15k+ is always impressive sounding. Especially to those who don't know. I've seen saws that I thought were impressive - but once they touch the wood the RPMs drop significantly.

The issue though is not fully knowing what was before, and not fully comprehending what exists after.

There's a lot of passive aggression going on here. Lots of implications being made. I know where you guys are coming from. Your single point of reference was an anomoly. Now you want to take that brush and try to paint a broad picture. I've got a lot of happy customers, and that speaks for itself.

Your also forgetting something else. You're going to a race saw builder for your saws. I don't build race saws, don't know how, and don't pretend to. So again, your point of reference is squewed.

On another point, I've seen my saws walk all over saws built by other builders. What you're doing is no different than me coming on here and telling how my saws are better than so and sos. You're not going to see that happen. Not every saw can be a winner. And it also doesn't make the slower saw a bad saw.

I also don't see you bringing anything to the table. You want R&D and all this other crap? Are you offering to support this with your time and money? I don't think so. Are you porting saws and figuring out how to make the new technology work? Another no. This isn't the "experimenting" you try to make it out to be. I've been in a number of strato saws now, and they have all responded well. The same basic porting techniques still apply. It's all about flow.

So cut the crap, buy your saws from who you think gives you the best for your buck, and leave all the crap slinging at home. Most of this crap originates from a single source, and you're simply drinking the coolaide. Come back and talk to me in a couple years, and see if you're still singing the same song.

 

[ChipMonger]

I ignored these clowns until now...

Come to CT and i'll be happy to put any one of my saws in your hands and you can see for yourself how they run. I'll admit im critical of a lot of things especially when i see flaws i'll rip em apart. I can be down right brutal, but when im happy im happy, and these saws do what they are supposed to above anything else i have run. Take the trash somewhere else, and keep this thread on tact and clean.

Just to be clear, this isnt directed at you Brad

 

[weimedog]

None of my points are directed at you directly, but this is a perfect place to discuss the business of online selling of services where there has to be a leap of faith to spend the dollars....just I want to see the same type of rigorous work done in this developing motorsport world as the other ones I have been a part of. So if your sensitive AND if the shoe fits wear it. That's all. No implications one way or the other. Now...maybe you know things I don't and that has hit a nerve...that's for others to discuss not me. I am happy for you that you have a following that can help pay for your hobby, And as I have said before your input usually is creative..lots to be said for that. Keep doing what you are doing! So if you take offense at my holding those to the fire who charge for for porting and performance services. Too bad. I will say the same thing to anyone one who either wants to spend the dollars on modifications or wants to build a market place modifying saws. You have to have a definable and tangible product as the subjective nature of this place can sell something that is...fashion and subjective vs. real and quantitative. The fact is this is fertile ground..you are entrepreneurial enough to till it..just I ask that those who want to play do it with eyes open. And my friend I have no problem going head to head with you on this topic. Lots of history in the motorsports world to use as reference points. So are you implying that R&D isn't required..a finger in the air based on a few saw is enough? Or are you implying that you have done the research and fall into the category of a responsible builder with data to back up your claims? You call it...which are you? To this point I have put you in the realm of a creative and developing builder who is building an experience base and a track record as time goes on...how do you see your self?

 

[WoodChuck'r]

At what point have I said anything about you as a builder?? At what point have I said you don't have any happy customers??

I didn't build any of the ported saws I own, nor do I plan to. Weimedog asked me a question in general, so I answered it speaking about my observations regarding my experience at limited races.

I'm not even talking about the saw in this thread, or any saw in specific. Well actually no, I'm lying. There was a 281 at a race I was at last summer and it was all RPMs. It was piped and running on alky, it screamed out of the wood but once under load it just couldn't hold it's own.

Weimedog was talking about building race quads, not just saws. I figured I'd throw in my two sense to add to the conversation since he asked me what I thought.

This isn't that big of a deal, it's just the internet.

 

[blsnelling]

None of my points are directed at you directly, but this is a perfect place to discuss the business of online selling of services where there has to be a leap of faith to spend the dollars....just I want to see the same type of rigorous work done in this developing motorsport world as the other ones I have been a part of. So if your sensitive AND if the shoe fits wear it. That's all. No implications one way or the other. Now...maybe you know things I don't and that has hit a nerve...that's for others to discuss not me. I am happy for you that you have a following that can help pay for your hobby, And as I have said before your input usually is creative..lots to be said for that. Keep doing what you are doing! So if you take offense at my holding those to the fire who charge for for porting and performance services. Too bad. I will say the same thing to anyone one who either wants to spend the dollars on modifications or wants to build a market place modifying saws. You have to have a definable and tangible product as the subjective nature of this place can sell something that is...fashion and subjective vs. real and quantitative. The fact is this is fertile ground..you are entrepreneurial enough to till it..just I ask that those who want to play do it with eyes open. And my friend I have no problem going head to head with you on this topic. Lots of history in the motorsports world to use as reference points. So are you implying that R&D isn't required..a finger in the air based on a few saw is enough? Or are you implying that you have done the research and fall into the category of a responsible builder with data to back up your claims? You call it...which are you? To this point I have put you in the realm of a creative and developing builder who is building an experience base and a track record as time goes on...how do you see your self?

It would be real nice if we had that kind of AM support, but we don't. We're just too small of a market. What you're talking about would take tons of time and money. I don't ever see it happening.

 

[weimedog]

I ignored these clowns until now...

Come to CT and i'll be happy to put any one of my saws in your hands and you can see for yourself how they run. I'll admit im critical of a lot of things especially when i see flaws i'll rip em apart. I can be down right brutal, but when im happy im happy, and these saws do what they are supposed to above anything else i have run. Take the trash somewhere else, and keep this thread on tact and clean.

Just to be clear, this isnt directed at you Brad

I am glad you are happy with your saw...money well spent. So bring it to some GTG's...or even better give Brad some exposure at the saw racing events if you fit into any of the classes. He's lucky to have a customer and free marketing. Let us know over time how the saw deals with the world you live in. That's a way to generate data. That's a creative build and pretty much answers the question all have asked about the life after 372XP ..guess there is one.

 

[blsnelling]

I am glad you are happy with your saw...money well spent. So bring it to some GTG's...or even better give Brad some exposure at the saw racing events if you fit into any of the classes. He's lucky to have a customer and free marketing. Let us know over time how the saw deals with the world you live in. That's a way to generate data. That's a creative build and pretty much answers the question all have asked about the life after 372XP ..guess there is one.

Again, I'm not building race saws. There is a big difference. I'm sure I could learn to build race saws, but I have no interest.

 

[weimedog]

It would be real nice if we had that kind of AM support, but we don't. We're just too small of a market. What you're talking about would take tons of time and money. I don't ever see it happening.

So you don't disagree with my premise at all..didn't think you would...just that the dollars aren't there in how you have built your business model. May I suggest that's why the racing thing works as real time and documented way of exposing performance concepts?..That along with customers like ChipMonger to fill in the reliability and fuel usage side is a low cost way of developing that track record. Just all have to understand this a customer funded effort and therefore they also shoulder the risk, and that understanding is what my thread is about. Do you disagree with that?

 

[weimedog]

Again, I'm not building race saws. There is a big difference. I'm sure I could learn to build race saws, but I have no interest.

So why would I spend my money with you vs. some of the other builders out there? Simple question many will ask. How do you differentiate your builds vs. others? Why not get into an arena where there is a quantitative way to compare yours vs. others? What better way of defining yourself as a builder? I know the answer....as long as your getting customers...why go out on a limb? (pretty punny..don't you think?)

You could say that customer service is your thing...maybe reliability..more power reliable & low risk..the bling factor. I'm now curious on how you define yourself.

 

[blsnelling]

So why would I spend my money with you vs. some of the other builders out there? Simple question many will ask. How do you differentiate your builds vs. others?

If you want a race saw, go to someone that builds race saws. If you want a work saw, I think my reputation speaks for itself. Bottom line, I'm not competing with any other builder. I've actually referred people to other builders for particular models. The 7900/681 is one the Jimmy from Nebraska has really cracked the code on. No secret there. I'm not here to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Is that what this is about??

Jay from Nebray and my stupid ####ing 681 again??


Ugh I wish this could be let go..... I should really throw that saw off of a cliff and be done with it for good.