interesting lecture from TED symposium

[John Paul Sanborn]

http://www.ted.com/talks/stefano_mancuso_the_roots_of_plant_intelligence.html

 

[TrillPhil]

Thread hijack.... http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2010/09/08/134-the-ted-conference/

 

[brookpederson]

WOW thats cool__ I know i learned some today

 

[sgreanbeans]

I have often thought about this, this year we planted a garden for the first time, my father in law built this lattice out of string for the beans, I ask him why. "the beans will reach for them and wrap around it, letting it grow higher" I thought he was on crack, until it did. I watched this thing grow and reach out to these strings, made me wonder how it knew it was there.
Now I know why they call them string beans!
My first garden was highly successful by the way, lots of canned greanbeans. My absolute favorite, hence my name!
Then I watched LIFE on Discovery, watching the time laps video is very convincing.
Good stuff JPS!

 

[sgreanbeans]

Thread hijack.... http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2010/09/08/134-the-ted-conference/

That is also interesting. Just an observation, most of lecturers are white as-well! is there a paradox here! maybe!

 

[brnchbrkr]

http://www.ted.com/talks/stefano_mancuso_the_roots_of_plant_intelligence.html

Not sure if it has been discussed elsewhere, but the Movie AVATAR comes to mind.

Finally watched it on a DVD, from the library, this summer with the kids.

Lot's of Tree and Roots and Networking references.

Heck, even the Firewood guys got a shout out in the movie....;-)

 

[sgreanbeans]

Not sure if it has been discussed elsewhere, but the Movie AVATAR comes to mind.

Finally watched it on a DVD, from the library, this summer with the kids.

Lot's of Tree and Roots and Networking references.

Heck, even the Firewood guys got a shout out in the movie....;-)

Your right!, Ill have to watch it again

 

[treevet]

Sentience in trees...always an interesting subject. Just yesterday my gm and I were discussing a big black locust (Robinia) takedown we did over the primaries that was covered with English ivy. It had many conks (Phellinus robineae) on it and obviously extensive decay.

The ivy was so heavy on it that it formed an exo skeleton (I kid you not) and if it was not on there the tree would certainly have fallen over. A locust nearby that lost its top (no need for support) had no climbing vines to speak of but plenty at the base in a bed. This would be sentience in vines I suppose being opportunistic and possibly getting sustanence from the decay and water as well to gain size and exposure to sun and maximize benefits from the situation.

But the relationship of fungi with trees is a better topic. It is referred to as endosymbiotic relations and relies on cellular memory.

From "Nature" 2002 on plant intelligence...

"Since plants do not have a brain they have to rely on cellular memory. Hence you are asking if plants can remember using some other organ analog that resembles a brain. Perhaps this may occur through their endosymbiotic relations with fungi, but I am not aware of any research demonstrating this. (Treevet...How about Shigo's research with CODIT on Wall 4 where a barrier is preformed well beyond the point of attack....to protect wood formed after wounding?) I can envision an analog in a sense, synaptic connections vs networks of fungal hyphae exchanging information."

"Studies involving grafting and localized cooling have shown that the apical meristem is the site of cold perception during vernalization, and that vernalization causes the meristem to become competent to flower. Once meristems have been exposed to prolonged cold, they remember that they have been vernalized and this memory is mitotically stable." (Sung and Amasino,2004)

A response to this in the posts below JPS topic vid...

"Sentience is the ability to perceive, not just a sense but to perceive, to feel or cognitively assign value to that which is sensed (positive, negative or neutral) and FURTHERMORE act accordingly." (Again Wall 4 IMO)

Another poster..."Cells have sensory capabilities, but lack a mind to apprehend the collected information to bring about awareness of its meaning."

Another poster (Jason)..."Plants are not intelligent. No evidence to indicate plants are sentient beings....emancipated, capable of making choices.

They are incredibly complex biological machines with a genetic supply of behaviors that have been rigidly chosen through natural selection. "Their actions are not learned but rather selected".

(Mark response)"Isn't learning another form of selection?"

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

But the relationship of fungi with trees is a better topic. It is referred to as endosymbiotic relations and relies on cellular memory.

At a recent WAA seminar I was talking to a Muni forestry leader who is convinced that the local DED population lies dormant for 13-16 years so it will have a good host to work with. He sees basal regen that dies back like a long-cycle calendar.

 

[treevet]

My best friend in HS in Ontario, a RCMP retired, artist, and founder of Vision Quest a program that helps Native Americans, who (my friend) now resides in Gibsons, B.C. told me how they feel about the plant community.

They recognize the spirit of the tree and its intelligence and speak, pray and give thanks to a tree before harvesting it or any part of it. They leave a gift for the Creator and the tree's spirit in thanks such as tobacco or food or a coin, etc..

Enclosed is a picture of my friend's friend speaking, singing and drumming to the tree. The ritual was done prior to the removal of a big cottonwood tree to make 2 large canoes for the Okanagan tribe in S. Ctl. B.C. as a gift from the Squamish Nation.

First Nations people have known for thousands of years that plants have "feelings and intelligence" and furthermore they feel the spirit of that cottonwood tree lives on in the canoe and the lake where it goes about its job of moving people and goods. So much do they believe this that when they have paddles and circles (meetings) the canoe is included in that circle (meeting).

If anyone gets in or out they introduce themselves to the crew and the canoe as well. The canoe is an equal member (the soul of the Cottonwood tree).

 

[treevet]

pict of his friend

 

[sgreanbeans]

That is cool! I was talking about string beans earlier, how did that plant know that string was 6" away? I swear it grew/reached right over and grabbed it! Now it took a couple days, but their minutes are our months. This is why I feel guilty every time I take one down that wasn't destroyed in a storm, I hate it when people want to take down a tree, just because its ugly. Had a customer years back, had a large willow in his back field, wanted it down because it "looked stupid out there by itself", tree was beautiful and healthy, talked him into leaving it and planting some friends. Ended up planting over 30 3" B&B's. I hope that helped the karma!
Plus I made way more money!

 

[treevet]

that's great...planting trees takes carbon dioxide outta the atmosphere. Removing them does the opposite.

Big trees esp are valued.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Yep, I think they clean about 3-tons a year, while producing about 750lbs of oxygen, of course that very's by tree and size.
I believe thats right, but I'm not a Jedi Master yet, so I could be wrong!

 

[Grace Tree]

Give some thought to the idea that ascribing sentience to trees and plants, animism, human controlled climate change... is part of an attempt to replace God, the creator. Romans 1:22-25 NIV
Phil

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Give some thought to the idea that ascribing sentience to trees and plants, animism, human controlled climate change... is part of an attempt to replace God, the creator. Romans 1:22-25 NIV
Phil

Or maybe it is a greater awe of his creation, and a better understanding of his call for us to be stewards of his world.

The idea that plants may have a rudimentary awareness does not put them on par with man, maybe mice and elk... Dolphins on the other hand, are close to human intellect