interesting sights

[treeman82]

During the course of my travels yesterday and today I saw some very interesting things, or at least they were interesting to me.

1) There was a company that about 2 or 3 years ago got 2 spanish employees killed when putting 9 guys in an ext cab pick-up, the pick-up crashed into a dumper, and 2 of the guys were killed. I thought for sure they would lose the business. Sure enough though, I saw one of their trucks driving around today.

2) Driving back from dropping somebody off last night, drove past a landscaper's yard... landscape company has about 45 employees and only does lawn care, and small landscape installs / maintenance. Sure enough, driving by I saw a brand new Vermeer 1800 in the back of the yard.

3) Driving this afternoon to see some people for various reasons, I am stopped at a stop sign and see a Mitsubishi Fuso drive by with a POS Eager Beaver being pulled behind it. Company is owned by a kid who is a few years older than me. He just got a dump truck a year ago. For the longest time all he did was cut grass... now he's getting into spraying, and masonary, and all kinds of BS. I kind of have it out for that kid though, because he screwed my parents with regards to getting the driveway plowed... hopefully he will drop a tree on somebody's house and get his arse sued to kingdom come.

When taking a class with Mark Tobin last fall he had us read a book by Howard Eckel. Both in the book, and coming from Mark, and guest lecturers, we were told that the way you make money is to do 1 thing, and do it very well.

But what does the former VP of Davey know? What does a former NAA president know?

 

[kf_tree]

why so bitter seeing other people make money?

 

[treeman82]

Ken, I'm not bitter, it just is depressing to me that so many lawn guys are getting into the tree business. The company which lost 2 employees is not being bitter, that was just being suprised. I mean I was curious whether or not W/C insurance would cover those claims seeing as how they had WAY more people in the truck than what is allowed. I figured they would have lost their house or something.

 

[kf_tree]

my old partner had 2 guys die on the job. he just ran to jamaica for a month both times.

since the guys were here illegally, their family probably did not try and sue.

there is no reward for doing the right thing in business. a subtle name change and no one will even notice. my old partner ran his business for 17 years with out a business account. he never paid tax's. no one ever came knocking on his door.

the longer your in it, the more you'll see come and go. a guy in staten island , poped up out of no where 2 years ago with a brand new crew cab 750 dump and a big 218 bandit. it just got midnite repossesed a few weeks ago. what goes around comes around. don't even bother trying to figure out the other guys, you'll just drive yourself nuts.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Yup, MYOB and do what you think is right. Then you will sleep easy at night and make a descent living.

Some people can make a decent buisness buy covering several different aspects of the green industry. You just need to figure out what will be your high margine and your loss leader. It is called managing

BTW Davey is spraying lawns here, high margines.

 

[treeman82]

John, I'm seeing TOO many people advertising around here for "tree cutting" It's kind of getting me depressed that people can advertise like that for our line of work.

 

[Stumper]

Why get depressed that other people gan just start up? . Some will come and go. Some of the people they work for will even be pleased. Over time the guys that are truly professional get that reputation. NOTHING beats word of mouth. A percentage of the population will always want to try someone or something new (Thank heaven!-How else wouuld ANYONE manage to get started?) Another segment of people will stick to what has proven itself and recommend what/who they have confidence in to their friends.

It is a hard thing to really assimilate but when we see someone else working on trees it does NOT mean that they have stolen work from us. Not only can I not do all the tree work that there is to be done,much of that work will not go to an established pro in any event. Do your thing . Do it well. Act honorably. Don't worry about everybody else! Worrying about things which you cannot control (and shouldn't try to) isn't healthy and will not make you happy. I'm not trying to scold you 82- I've felt what you are feeling but I've learned that it is not only futile but also misdirected frustration.:angel:

 

[kf_tree]

just open your phone book.......how many roofers, plumbers, mechanics,vets, docs, etc are out there? oh well no sense in going to med school with all those docs in my area.

what do you really need to start a tree svc? a pick up a few saws and a rope or two and a ladder. notice i did not even say insurance.

your the one going to school to learn proper tree care. but unless you can convince (or educate) the customer you will be fighting a loosing battle. customers care about what will it cost me. i understand your trying to seperate your self from the pack by knowing proper up to date tree care, but you need an audiance to listen.

nasa was warned of faulty o rings on the space shuttle and they still let it fly costing human lives. now compare that to spiking a tree. it all comes down to the mighty dollar.

sorry, i do not know how to give you words of encouragement. i think for your area your fighting a looseing battle. you have to decide are you in it for the money or proper tree care. i do not believe they come hand in hand. i'm not saying it's impossible but it will take a looong time to build up a business like that, and you'll have to sit by watching guys build up fleets of equipment.

but hey, remember where i'm coming from. my business and the people i worked for were run like construction companies. we did not chase dead wood in tip's, we just wacked out the whole lead.we were production cutters that spiked every thing. i still don't believe a spike less climber can be faster.(unless i see it with my own eye's)

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Go to the TCI convention in Baltimore this fall. You will get to see some real tree care profesionals there. Afterwards there is usualy a fun climb with a wide cross section of the industry showing up.

 

[Hammer]

I have been around trees all my life, as my father owned a service. Now i for 10 yrs have owned mine also. Alot of "guys' think that tree work is fast easy money. until they get 60 ft in air and are saying OMG! Also it is always funny to watch all the " tree services" come out of wood work after a BIG STORM. I am by no means the biggest, or claim to be best, but I am good at what I do. My father always said that alot of tree companies come but more go! By the way i am one of the guys whom has a POS chipper! LOL but never taken a loan in ten years and as a buddy told me that i am 90% profit. I feel that we whom know what we are doing will be around for years and those who don't will be wondering for years how they could have done what we do, day after day! BE SAFE AND TAKE CARE!

 

[Stumper]

But ......you did read it Brian!

 

[treeman82]

Brian, thank's for the complement

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Now now Brian, I dont want to have to go deleting your posts again for petty personal attacks.

If it were just stupid chatter, so many people would not have responded, Many people go through the phase Matt is, bemoaning the hacks and landscrapers. eventualy we all come around to selling ourselves and learning to compare our apples to their lemons. The hacks will always run on the customer, ones shot sale driven buisness while the quality tree care people will have client based relationships that help them grow the buisness and get them through the slow periods.

 

[treeman82]

I have been pondering whether or not I should respond to this thread again, and finally came up with "why not?"

1) I was suprised to see the landscape company's truck driving around because to the best of my knowledge, if you are blatantly breaking the law by putting 9 guys in a truck only meant to hold 5, and 2 get killed when that truck crashes... I didn't think that worker's comp would cover them, which in turn would get them to lose their house. In NYS if you have 1 employee besides yourself you need comp. From what the article said in the paper a couple years back, they had 3 guys in the back of the pickup in the ext cab part... 4 in the front on the bench, and 2 sitting on the dashboard facing to the back of the vehicle. If you don't have comp in this state, and somebody gets injured on the job working for you, they can take your house, and the house of the people who YOU are working for.

3) The kid who was towing around the POS chipper... My parents have not had to pay for having the snow plowed for the past 7 years. I had 2 friends who would do it for free, and they both did pretty darn good jobs at it. 1 got out of that aspect of the business, the other still does it. However I had asked another friend to plow the driveway this year, even he would have done it for free... he was going to... but never had the time. So my parents called this kid up and he came and plowed the driveway for us this winter, screwed it up bad, and my parents had to pay him for it. Now that does erk me, but what erk's me even more is that last winter the kid plowed our driveway by mistake, didn't do a full job, and my parents got ticked off with my friend who was doing it for free. Now my friend who was doing it for free at the time... well let's just say that he is not the most sane person in the world. So he got ticked with me and didn't plow the driveway the next time it snowed... so we called the kid back and he plowed it, but of course my parents had to pay him. So I have beef with the kid. I was tempted to call up one of my customer / friends this winter who holds a LOT of influence in the local contracting community... but it wasn't worth it. So I hope he fails in his tree endeavors. That's the nice version of my story...


BTW- Hammer, I think that whatever kind of equipment you want to use in this business is up to you. I have met people who have old equipment who do some of the best work around, and some people who have really nice, big equipment who I would NEVER trust with my trees.

 

[SilverBlue]

Ok so what do you guys suggest to do when you can’t find an arborist that meets your own standards? Sure there’s some great people here, but who wants to hire a city employee type arborist or a rogue independent?

I started out in organic lawn care but love to do trees as well, but want to do it right, not like some tree toppers around here.

 

[TREETX]

Workers from Spain?

Matt-

CHILL out. Stop looking around and over your shoulder. If you want to be successful with your own biz, focus on your own market share. I don't get pissy when I see friggin hacks working in a nice neighborhood or when friggin hack company X suddenly has a new truck or chipper after just 6 months of biz, etc.

There is one reason for this!!

I don't view them as competition. I insult myself if I do. I do say, "I wish I had that job......." when I pass by some of the really educated, service oriented, honest tree guys/co's working a nice job. I say that because I see them as competition. I know they sold a fair service job at a fair price instead of commodity based, lowest bid situation.

I see the hacks working and say, poor fools. The hack obviously, but the customer that bit on the offer of a "good deal".

With your education, you should view it the same, you are an educated dedicated tree man for the long run. They are not your competition, they are fools to laugh and shake your head at.

Don't look at the jobs they take as potential customers lost. When these guys are gone, you will be their tree care provider.

Part of being a good tree care provider is being in the "game" for the long run.

I have told customers that yes, I can do this work for cheaper but I am doing you a disservice if I am not in business in a few years when you have tree care needs again.

Mainly, stop the frigging whining and who hires all of these guys from SPAIN?

You are qualified, have more faith in you. Forget the rest.