I don't see any reason for flames. Based on the opinions given and the work Philbert did, it sounds like a cheap HF grinder plus a sufficiently skilled operator will yield a reasonably sharp chain. However, it does require the user to know what they are doing, the grinder doesn't have a lot of HP, and the wheels are an odd size. The HF grinder is going to be a bit slow if you're trying to do more than one or two chains at a time, and it requires more skill to get acceptable results. That's not going to be a good match for my potential application.
Economical chain grinding
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I have 2 of these so that I don't have to remove chains for grinding.
Grandberg direct grinder
I have one setup for 3/8 chain and the other setup for .325 chain. I think they do a dandy job. I have killed several belts in the other versions that require belts, but the direct drive grinder has been rock - solid dependable.
I have discovered that swapping stones on a single grinder didn't work very well. This is because the stones don't repeatedly"seat" the same on the mating surface. This resulted in a a slight wobble that made the stone vibrate slightly and not work very well.
I use a file to remove some raker material occasionally.
Grandberg direct grinder
I have one setup for 3/8 chain and the other setup for .325 chain. I think they do a dandy job. I have killed several belts in the other versions that require belts, but the direct drive grinder has been rock - solid dependable.
I have discovered that swapping stones on a single grinder didn't work very well. This is because the stones don't repeatedly"seat" the same on the mating surface. This resulted in a a slight wobble that made the stone vibrate slightly and not work very well.
I use a file to remove some raker material occasionally.
My thoughts...
Get an old bike carrier that clamps on the tow bar, cut the top off & weld/bolt a vice to it to assist with holding chainsaws being worked on.
Get 3 of the cheep bar mounted 12V grinders... they're nothing to write home about but they work ok & can easily be made a bit more accurate with a few tweeks (shims etc). Set one up for 3/8, one for 3/8 lo pro/ .325, & keep one as a spare.
That setup removes the need for any generators or expensive inverters & people won't need to remove & refit chains. It also fits your budget & gives you some redundancy.
Scrounge up a couple of used but servicable car batteries if you can so you don't have to worry about draining a vehicle battery.
Get an old bike carrier that clamps on the tow bar, cut the top off & weld/bolt a vice to it to assist with holding chainsaws being worked on.
Get 3 of the cheep bar mounted 12V grinders... they're nothing to write home about but they work ok & can easily be made a bit more accurate with a few tweeks (shims etc). Set one up for 3/8, one for 3/8 lo pro/ .325, & keep one as a spare.
That setup removes the need for any generators or expensive inverters & people won't need to remove & refit chains. It also fits your budget & gives you some redundancy.
Scrounge up a couple of used but servicable car batteries if you can so you don't have to worry about draining a vehicle battery.
In my case, the inverter genny isn't an issue. I own a Champion 2000 watt inverter and it weighs less than 40 pounds so moving it from the side by side to the shop or wherever is a non issue and 2000 running watts is plenty enough to run any 110 volt chain grinder as well as my corded power tools. Very frugal on fuel as well, even the corn squeezed variety but I do add Marine Stabil to the gas always.
Problem with that as well as the Dremel with the stones in it is, you still have to manually maintain the correct tooth angle whereas with a chain grinder with a rigid mount motor, the tooth angle as well as the depth is adjustable, but built into the tool so they remove to a great extent, the human wiggle factor and sharpen very uniformly all the cutters and / or depth stops. Why I have a pair of grinders actually. One is for sharpening the teeth and the other is dedicated to cutting the rakers and I don't use the bonded wheels at all. I use the aluminum rimmed CBN wheels that never need dressing, just an infrequent cleaning with a soft. white cleaning stone. I can get upwards of 250 loops from one wheel and maybe more because I have not found the end of the wheels at 250 loops.
I have zero issues removing the loops either. Gives me a chance to inspect the bar, clean the bar grooves, clean the oil holes in the bar and flip it over as well.....
Not gonna flame you. If they work for you, that is all that counts in my opinion, so no flames.
I've got the granberg 12v, Grind n joint grinder, has depth do can cut rakers accurately too. 85$ new with 3 sizes of stones.
I really like it
I really like it
Glad you like it. I don't fault anyone for their choices and that includes political choices as well.
In my situation, I require chain grinders that can turn out volume (sort of tongue - n - cheek). I grind chains for all the local arborists around here as well. Most of them have found out that instead of tossing a loop when dull and putting on another, it's way more economical at today's prices, for me to dress their chains and I do. Typically, I get a bucket full at a time. Kind of like chipper knives, they usually come in, in boxes that take 2 guys to bring in the shop (as in heavy). My only constraint is, if they come in with rust of the drive links or missing teeth, I toss them but I've educated them to put them in a bucket of motor oil (used of course, arborists are inherently cheap)...lol.
I can make up new loops if they want them and I do quite often. I only buy Oregon chain in bulk rolls.
First I drain them, then give them a bath in mineral spirits. The a trip in the big ultrasonic cleaner with a lye and heated water solution, that gets all the pitch and stuck on swarf off of them. Then I rinse them, then grind them and then they go back in another bucket with clean oil and get drained and then I segregate them as to length and pitch, zip tie them together and off they go.
I only use CBN wheels. One grinder is set up for grinding teeth, the other is for dropping depth gages and I always ask my customers what they want the rakers set at. Some like them at 020 some like 030, their choice and I always comply. I set mine at 020.
Keep in mind, I grind commercial chipper knives as well and just a make work thing. I own and operate a short run machine and fabrication shop and have 2 full time employees as well. Actually 3 if you count my wife, she keeps the books and gives me hell.
What good is life without some variety?
In my situation, I require chain grinders that can turn out volume (sort of tongue - n - cheek). I grind chains for all the local arborists around here as well. Most of them have found out that instead of tossing a loop when dull and putting on another, it's way more economical at today's prices, for me to dress their chains and I do. Typically, I get a bucket full at a time. Kind of like chipper knives, they usually come in, in boxes that take 2 guys to bring in the shop (as in heavy). My only constraint is, if they come in with rust of the drive links or missing teeth, I toss them but I've educated them to put them in a bucket of motor oil (used of course, arborists are inherently cheap)...lol.
I can make up new loops if they want them and I do quite often. I only buy Oregon chain in bulk rolls.
First I drain them, then give them a bath in mineral spirits. The a trip in the big ultrasonic cleaner with a lye and heated water solution, that gets all the pitch and stuck on swarf off of them. Then I rinse them, then grind them and then they go back in another bucket with clean oil and get drained and then I segregate them as to length and pitch, zip tie them together and off they go.
I only use CBN wheels. One grinder is set up for grinding teeth, the other is for dropping depth gages and I always ask my customers what they want the rakers set at. Some like them at 020 some like 030, their choice and I always comply. I set mine at 020.
Keep in mind, I grind commercial chipper knives as well and just a make work thing. I own and operate a short run machine and fabrication shop and have 2 full time employees as well. Actually 3 if you count my wife, she keeps the books and gives me hell.
What good is life without some variety?
Start with 1/2 decent equipment, really.
The Oregon/Tecomec is pretty decent to learn on. Sure there are better, but gotta start somewhere, eh?
Really to get a feel for what is a sharp chain, and how to get one (half decent, anyway) off a grinder learn how to file one by hand.
considering the clientele you mentioned, storm cleanup, those guys probably would consider a 1/2 decent grind job fantastic!
But, learn... try different adjustments, etc.
The cheapo harbor freight grinder is junk. Been there, done that 10 years ago. NEver go back.
One thing..... I can NOT stress enough.
KEEP THY WHEEL CLEAN!
Unless you are willin' to wash the chains like the above post, the wheel will get dirty. Then it becomes excess friction. Which burns the cutters. Really really bad. Clean and dress with the stone frequently. I have even been know to use a wire brush first on a bad chain.... still makes a mess of the wheel.
Later, a year from now anyway, get back to me, and I will tell you how to reverse your motor on the tecomec.
For now, it is fine. However, if the wheel rotates the opposite direction on the RH cutters it keeps the chrome edge clean.
My Foley 308 was designed this way from factory, and I have reversed a Stihl USG as well.
Yes, it shoots sparks at YOU this way, sit off to the side. It isn't so bad.
Even yet, I can get a chain a little "sharper" with a few strokes of a file. I am getting a little better with the grinder(s), but...
My 2 cents worth
The Oregon/Tecomec is pretty decent to learn on. Sure there are better, but gotta start somewhere, eh?
Really to get a feel for what is a sharp chain, and how to get one (half decent, anyway) off a grinder learn how to file one by hand.
considering the clientele you mentioned, storm cleanup, those guys probably would consider a 1/2 decent grind job fantastic!
But, learn... try different adjustments, etc.
The cheapo harbor freight grinder is junk. Been there, done that 10 years ago. NEver go back.
One thing..... I can NOT stress enough.
KEEP THY WHEEL CLEAN!
Unless you are willin' to wash the chains like the above post, the wheel will get dirty. Then it becomes excess friction. Which burns the cutters. Really really bad. Clean and dress with the stone frequently. I have even been know to use a wire brush first on a bad chain.... still makes a mess of the wheel.
Later, a year from now anyway, get back to me, and I will tell you how to reverse your motor on the tecomec.
For now, it is fine. However, if the wheel rotates the opposite direction on the RH cutters it keeps the chrome edge clean.
My Foley 308 was designed this way from factory, and I have reversed a Stihl USG as well.
Yes, it shoots sparks at YOU this way, sit off to the side. It isn't so bad.
Even yet, I can get a chain a little "sharper" with a few strokes of a file. I am getting a little better with the grinder(s), but...
My 2 cents worth
I largely tend to agree with Philbert on this topic. Get a decent quality grinder. Wheel changes are a 30 second affair. No need to over think it. Dress the wheels between chains. Let the wheel do the work and don't force it. As with everything there's a learning curve, and I wouldn't let just anyone use a chain grinder. It's really easy to screw up a chain beyond usable in a hurry. Don't worry about reversing the motor.
There are "better" wheels you can buy that won't need dressed, but they cost quite a bit. I've worn out a handful of wheels in the 10+ years I've had a grinder, even doing chains for others.
Not sure where the pure sine wave bs is coming from, it's a basic motor, any old generator will run it just fine. That's only a thing for sensitive electronics. Which none of the mentioned grinders remotely come close to.
I'd advocate some carbide chain (s) if you're really getting into nasty/ demo style clean up. Yes, they cost an arm and a leg, and yes they need sharpened with a diamond stone, but they will keep cutting a lot longer then a regular chain in hard conditions. Killing a few regular chains pretty much evens out to one carbide chain cost wise, especially on longer loops. Just a thought, and yes I understand they arnt practical for a lot of reasons, but they serve a purpose.
There are "better" wheels you can buy that won't need dressed, but they cost quite a bit. I've worn out a handful of wheels in the 10+ years I've had a grinder, even doing chains for others.
Not sure where the pure sine wave bs is coming from, it's a basic motor, any old generator will run it just fine. That's only a thing for sensitive electronics. Which none of the mentioned grinders remotely come close to.
I'd advocate some carbide chain (s) if you're really getting into nasty/ demo style clean up. Yes, they cost an arm and a leg, and yes they need sharpened with a diamond stone, but they will keep cutting a lot longer then a regular chain in hard conditions. Killing a few regular chains pretty much evens out to one carbide chain cost wise, especially on longer loops. Just a thought, and yes I understand they arnt practical for a lot of reasons, but they serve a purpose.
The crew isn't using saws for the kind of work that would require a carbide chain. Most of the sawyers are just volunteers with regular jobs. The equipment operators, on the other hand, are rather impressive at what they do. They have 9 to 5 jobs also, but those jobs put them in their equipment more days than not. The sawyers are prone to get into the dirt once in a while, or find a rock that a bird left in the tree 20 years ago, or (on the last trip) an old T post that the tree had grown around (MS881 with a 47" bar on a tree that could use most of that bar). Most of them would be perfectly happy with a freshly ground chain, and most of the time they don't get that bad during a days work (but they DO need sharpened), occasionally one gets trashed through no fault of the user.
I'm fine with files. Personally, I can't stand a chain that is freshly ground. Its not done yet. If there's just 2 or 3 of us on saws, I don't mind doing everything by hand with files. When the job is bigger, and there are more volunteers (or even more organizations), that's more than I'm willing to do by hand. I already have a vice setup that I built for my receiver, and my saws rarely leave the house without it in the truck bed.
Teach a man to fish...
Not liking a factory grind goes out the window once you're decent with your own grinder. Having said that, it's rare for me to grind my own chains very often. Usually just when I rock one or hit something unknown in a tree. I prefer to hand file too.
Treaching other... yep, I'm not a good teacher at all.
Just tossed the carbide idea out there, you made it sound like some pretty nasty stuff you were dealing with, which makes carbide worth it in that case.
No "flames" required, nor useful. My guess is that you are one person using your Harbor Freight grinders, and you don't drop them from whatever you clamp them to (at least not very often, or have them go boink on a big rock plastic-crunchingly hard). It is less likely that a crew of "disaster/storm" brought-together-just-to-deal-with-the-mess people are going to be altogether careful of a relatively flimsy / fragile (...plastic) chain grinder. And, on the other hand,. they need chain sharpening (hit nails, hit pavement, pipes / conduit, etc.) probably more than other chainsaw people.
It is also true that genuinely good file sharpening actually takes more hand-eye and talent than learning to use one of the better grinders, and typically more time, attention, and patience. And it really is not true that grinding, done right (touch, touch, touch technique, etc.) takes away more of the tooth. Sooo.... consider some of the chaos in Fla / Ga right now in the wake of the hurricane. And probably... bring along extra loops and a chain grinder that can run easily from an inverter working from the 12V of a truck, etc.
It is also true that genuinely good file sharpening actually takes more hand-eye and talent than learning to use one of the better grinders, and typically more time, attention, and patience. And it really is not true that grinding, done right (touch, touch, touch technique, etc.) takes away more of the tooth. Sooo.... consider some of the chaos in Fla / Ga right now in the wake of the hurricane. And probably... bring along extra loops and a chain grinder that can run easily from an inverter working from the 12V of a truck, etc.
Yes, the leads to the motor windings actually are "bought out" (and hiding in the "arm" usually) with the Tecomec, Oregon, etc. grinders. Thus, one can enable turning the grinding wheel in both with a double pole switch, wired "X" as it were, to switch the winding wires.
The wheel reversing thing is not just about sparks.
If a wheel breaks / ‘explodes’ while running in the reverse direction, the guards will not contain it as well, and will come towards the operator.
When testing s bunch of mini- grinders in the HF Grinder thread, I got complacent and did not do a ‘ring test’ before mounting a wheel.
Even with a lower power grinder, correct rotation, and guards in place, it got ‘exciting’. Fast.
Philbert
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/hf-chain-grinder-thread.268303/page-6#post-5109097
Post #114
Correct.
Just me cutting my own firewood.
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Good cheap fast you can only pick two is the norm. I can hand file and do a good job for whatever reason really hurts my hands. Used a Dremal for years diamond wheels honing oil had a inverter on a pickup battery ran fine. Not many people appreciate a nice sharp chain. The few that understands will learn the skills to sharpen a chain. Some never understand and will run the chain right back in the dirt again. I see big custom spikes on chainsaws. Any good feeding chain almost never will need a big spike.
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