interview climb in spurs on live tree, not to be removed

[TheKid]

So, without pointing a finger (hopefully), there is an opening for a high climber (municipal position) "near" my city and today was round 2 of the "working interview". I was working a few blocks from the park where the interview was conducted and my buddy was one of the applicants, so he clued me in to the process. There was a simulated work climb (no spurs), and a bucket truck trial, and a spur climb. The spur climb was in a large popular park, right next to the walking path and the tree climbed was a douglas fir, approx. 80' in height. There were about 20 applicants and each one had to spur up the fir on a pre-set high line, ascend to a ribbon tied about half-way up, tie in, natural crotched around the trunk and descend. I walked by and asked one of the proctors if the guy in the tree was spiking a live, non-removal tree and he said, yes. What are people's thoughts on this hiring process? I wish i could elaborate my thoughts and description more, but gotta go to work!

 

[JTinaTree]

20 people Spiking up a Tree that's not being removed?? That's SAD I woulnd'nt want to work for a Company who thought that was good practice/work ethic :monkey:

 

[Rftreeman]

20 people Spiking up a Tree that's not being removed?? That's SAD I woulnd'nt want to work for a Company who thought that was good practice/work ethic :monkey:

yes, sad it is but it won't kill the tree and every utility company use spikes on live trees, I saw a tree once that was used for rescue training and it had been spike hundreds of times and it's still living, my brother and I use a small 6 inch dbh maple as a gun target and shot several holes all the way through over 4 years ago and that tree is as health as any of the others.........

 

[RedlineIt]

Ahh, the Parks Department Municipal interview, I remember them well.

We interviewed for an Equipment Operator's position, the question was: "How would you replace the shear pin on this wing mower?"

The pool of applicants were all seasonal employees looking to get on full-time, and this was a piece of equipment they had all used regularly. It was SOP to carry extra shear pins and replace them in the field, they broke all the time and the operator could easily fix it in 2 or 3 minutes. So most of the interview hopefuls demonstrated their skill, the interviewer even had a stopwatch at the ready to help sell the ruse.

Of course, the only correct answer was: "I book the equipment for repair with at the repair depot, in accordance with Municipal Safety Procedures Manual Section 14.2.2"

The old trick question.

If I were on this spurring demonstration interview, my trick question detector would have been pinging an alarm bell, and I would exhaust my appeals against spurring a live tree not scheduled for removal, just for brownie points, before doing the climb, depending on the interviewers response.

--------------------------

my brother and I use a small 6 inch dbh maple as a gun target and shot several holes all the way through over 4 years ago and that tree is as health as any of the others.........

I was contracted to do some limb raising on a Military rifle firing range. Big leaf Maple, Fir, Hemlock, Arbutus all right behind the targets, subjected to everything from sniper practice to full-auto training for several decades. More lead in these trees than I care to mention, even limbing up I dulled the chain several times.

Nothing has died from it yet, though the Arbutus look like a Salvador Dali interpretation of Dante's 7th level of Hell. Sick and weird, but not dead.


RedlineIt

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Sick and weird, but not dead.

This is the laziness of the industry in its fight against poor practice.

This will kill it, that will kill it yada, yada, yada...

Then the redneck hack pulls out his list of anecdotal evidence where it does not, and did not for his Daddy.

The facts are that it harms the tree, it causes secondary stresses, loss of conductive tissue, stimulates reaction zone productions and depletes energy reserves. It also increases the possibility of infections and infestation resulting in higher probability of decay court formations.

Gaffing a trim is not tree care, it is semi-skilled labor performing a task in a state of ignorance.

Yes there are times when ROW forestry requires the practice, but that is not tree care, it is line maintenance.

 

[Rftreeman]

I'm a redneck, he's a redneck, she's a redneck, wouldn't you like to be a redneck too..........................lol


OMG.......................HE IS SPIKING A TRIM AND NOW THE SKY IS FALLING..............HELP ME RUN FROM THE FALLING SKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!












disclaimer: this is meant to be funny and in no way do I condone spiking a trim...................

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm a redneck, he's a redneck, she's a redneck, wouldn't you like to be a redneck too..........................lol

If the bed of your pickup resembles a dumpster....

I say I'm redneck....without the racial overtones.

Dang crackers moving in across the street, next thing you know there will be dirty kids running around and broke-down cars on the lawn!

this is meant to be funny and in no way do I condone spiking a trim.

If you do, just don't say you do tree care

 

[md_tree_dood]

Further more, if you can't climb without spikes, don't call yourself an Arborist.

As far as the app process goes, its a government job right? Since when does the government follow any set of standards but their own?

 

[TheKid]

Thanks for the replies. I really just wanted to shed light on this somewhat egregious behavior, especially considering that is almost the year 2009 and this is a city job and it did take place in a very popular and beautiful park. Does anyone know if this goes against ANSI standards in any way? I will be returning to the park to take photos of the tree and will try to post them here.

 

[southsoundtree]

So, without pointing a finger (hopefully), there is an opening for a high climber (municipal position) "near" my city and today was round 2 of the "working interview". I was working a few blocks from the park where the interview was conducted and my buddy was one of the applicants, so he clued me in to the process. There was a simulated work climb (no spurs), and a bucket truck trial, and a spur climb. The spur climb was in a large popular park, right next to the walking path and the tree climbed was a douglas fir, approx. 80' in height. There were about 20 applicants and each one had to spur up the fir on a pre-set high line, ascend to a ribbon tied about half-way up, tie in, natural crotched around the trunk and descend. I walked by and asked one of the proctors if the guy in the tree was spiking a live, non-removal tree and he said, yes. What are people's thoughts on this hiring process? I wish i could elaborate my thoughts and description more, but gotta go to work!

The just don't have it scheduled for removal yet. After twenty pairs of spikes on it, it will come up I'll bet. Let us know how this goes, please. Take some pictures now and over time.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Everybody has forgot to ask the question, given it was a large Douglas fir, did the spikes even hit the cambium??

 

[Burvol]

Everybody has forgot to ask the question, given it was a large Douglas fir, did the spikes even hit the cambium??

Exactly....just roughed up her hide a bit.

 

[mattmc2003]

I have a question. So a small hole from a spike is worse than sawing limbs off a tree you are pruning up? Just askin?

 

[clearance]

Everybody has forgot to ask the question, given it was a large Douglas fir, did the spikes even hit the cambium??

Good one there West.

 

[Dadatwins]

I am interested that at least the city has a practical test of the applicants. Not agreeing with the process, but happy there is one. There are places that have nothing more than a series of verbal questions for the entire interview and then they turn them loose.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I have a question. So a small hole from a spike is worse than sawing limbs off a tree you are pruning up? Just askin?

Are you making a collar cut, or a flush cut. It is basic TreePhys 101.

Pruning is wounding, but it is selective and made with an understanding as to how a tree grows.

A proper pruning cut does not damage trunk/stem wood so the the trunk tissue can grow up around it. There are natural barriers in secondary branching that help the tree to resist any infection from spreading from branch tissue to trunk tissue.

Add to that the fact that the gaffer has danced around the trunk to make the cuts and the tree ends up with more wounds that it needs to close up, hence more loss of energy reserves.

One could easily turn make a 3-4 hour lecture/lab from this question alone, so this is a very abbreviated answer.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Everybody has forgot to ask the question, given it was a large Douglas fir, did the spikes even hit the cambium??

They may not have went into cambium, but I would bet phelogen was penetrated. cork Cambium connects to true cambium and wounding of the bark can cause decay courts. It will induce stress.

Of all the buck-rubs and bear scratches you've seen on thick barked conifers, can you say that none of them have not cankered?

 

[southsoundtree]

I have a question. So a small hole from a spike is worse than sawing limbs off a tree you are pruning up? Just askin?

there is a chemical defense zone at the branch collar that is a protective mechanism that is in place for well pruned limbs.

I think of it as the tree trunk and roots as the main unit, with the branches being subunits. They can be generally be removed, if done properly and when they are small, with a good sealing mechanism, whereas the spike wounds, if puncturing into the cambium don't the same type of mechanism, as the anatomy is different.

Correct me here everybody/ anybody-- I believe that each limb is independent of every other limb. One limb will feed itself, the trunk, and the roots, but will not give any sugars or re-absorbed pigments from leaves, to any other limbs. Couple that with there being a mechanism for branch loss (natural self-pruning in fire-adapted ecosystems--e.g. Ponderosa pine) and sealing with the branch protection zone, and that is why I describe the limbs as independent sub-units.
Please correct my biology anybody if I'm misinformed or unclear.


On another note, twenty people lowering themselves from the same area seems like it could/ would likely cause rope burn damage as well.

I suspect less likelihood for cambium puncture if people wore pole spikes instead of tree spikes, but I suspect this is not likely.

 

[Rftreeman]

I have a question. So a small hole from a spike is worse than sawing limbs off a tree you are pruning up? Just askin?

you know what, Id like to see the answer to this also, I know I would rather have a spike drove in me then my arm cut off but I 'm not a tree.

EDIT: I just noticed the post above........lol

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Correct me here everybody/ anybody-- I believe that each limb is independent of every other limb.

I think of it as secondary and primary branching.

Secondary you have the BPZ, the initial bud started independent of the stems terminal bud.

Primary branching is best seen in codominance and wolf limbs. There are also large low limbs that become suppressed by upper canopy, but they all originated from buds secondary to the terminal when the stem was young.

this form of branching shares wood with the trunk, there is no BPZ or true collar. They tend to have more included crotches, and when cut woundwood patterns look like flush cuts. Decay patterns look like trunk wounds too, with discoloration moving farther up and down the trunk, especially down, since included unions act as a good zone 4.

but I 'm not a tree

Exactly, which is why I hate analogies that it out of the wood plant realm. Even equating treatments of trees to shrubs causes troubles. Topping is a good example, hedging a shrub is a form of topping. If done properly it does not cause any problems. When applied to trees one needs to go to a pollard or cloud pruning model.