Irresponsible constructon practices

[beastmaster]

We were suppose to start a job today, but we had to back out at the last minute due to liability issues. There are 30 ,hundred year old olive trees. The trees have historical status and surround a theater that's getting restored. We where suppose to rehabilitate years of abuse and neglect. Dead-wooding, removing old stubs, and lightly thinning thick matted areas. The whole 7 million dollar project has state funding. The contract is over an inch thick, and contains some strange stuff. In the contract it states were responsible if a tree is damaged or dies. We were recommended for this job by a local university. Yesterday my Boss took me over to show me the job. Construction everywhere. They have changed the grade in several areas around the tree. Tree wells were removed. The middle of the grove is being cemented over. A trench was dug along a path along one row of trees, taking out major roots. The dirt is piled up around the base of the trees. The back hoe and other equipment is driving over the root zones. We are trying to get the contract amended. The damage is done, and no one cares. Its sad.

 

[2dogs]

Take your camera! It sounds like a no win situation, many of the trees may die and it will be YOUR fault. Documant everything.

 

[newbym]

Don't forget that only arborists have the ability to kill a tree. It doesn't matter what the construction crew does because they're not specifically working on the trees and you are. Therefore when the trees die, it's all your fault man, you were the one who was working on all those trees. Don't you know that those big trees are tough? What's a little extra dirt, some cut roots, wounds to the trunk flare, soil compaction and maybe a little cement poured around them going to hurt them. The way I see it is that if the tree doesn't actually fall over during construction, then whatever happens to it can't be the construction crews fault. Those trees would probably survive if you don't let one of them damn tree guys get into them and start messing with things.

At least, that's what the construction crews around here seem to think. Don't you just love when a customer hires you to do a tree preservation plan for a new construction, you set up all the trees (boundaries, clearance pruning, laying down 6" of chips over equipment routes) then the construction crew comes in and just ignores it all, saying "we didn't know what all those orange barriers were for, they were in our way so we took them down," and "oh, you mean those chips were for us to drive on? We thought they were a flowerbed or something, so we just ripped off that big limb over there and it gives us a straight shot between all them trees and the building pad."

Oh well, I guess if everyone knew the right way to deal with trees, I'd be out of a job.

 

[BC_Logger]

pictures with a proper date stamp buds

 

[ATH]

Need to make yourself responsible for tree protection before the construction contract is signed. Then you need to put several thousand dollar fines in the construction contract for violating your rules. Tell them if they want you to protect the trees, they need to rely on your expertise...if they don't like your rules then yeah...run, run, run. Sounds like that is where you are now.

Good idea to back out. Even if you get the contract modified so you are not responsible, I'd be worried about perception down the road - people would think that you failed in your duty to protect the trees.

"The whole 7 million dollar project has state funding..."
'nuff said.

 

[treesandsurf]

Document everything.... what a bummer.

jp

 

[TreeTopKid]

Need to make yourself responsible for tree protection before the construction contract is signed. Then you need to put several thousand dollar fines in the construction contract for violating your rules. Tell them if they want you to protect the trees, they need to rely on your expertise...


I totally agree with you, but how many times do you get the call when the roots are already sticking out of the ground after the skid steer has cleared the underbrush. It drives me crazy.

 

[ATH]

I totally agree with you, but how many times do you get the call when the roots are already sticking out of the ground after the skid steer has cleared the underbrush. It drives me crazy.

Slightly less often than the calls 8 years later wondering why the tree is dying, and what they can do to save it.

It is tough because the client is often relying on the construction contractor to "do the right thing". Most often, I just think they don't know what that is. If they do, they don't want to tell the client becaue they know it will do nothing for them but slow them down. The client doesn't think about protecting trees until they notice something wrong.

 

[TreeTopKid]

Slightly less often than the calls 8 years later wondering why the tree is dying, and what they can do to save it.

It is tough because the client is often relying on the construction contractor to "do the right thing". Most often, I just think they don't know what that is. If they do, they don't want to tell the client becaue they know it will do nothing for them but slow them down. The client doesn't think about protecting trees until they notice something wrong.

Exactly! It's a vicious cycle. In this day and age there should be a program in enforced by municipalities to educate construction companies and there staff working on projects within their jurisdiction about the importance of protecting the critical root zone etc. It's not rocket science!

 

[BC WetCoast]

Exactly! It's a vicious cycle. In this day and age there should be a program in enforced by municipalities to educate construction companies and there staff working on projects within their jurisdiction about the importance of protecting the critical root zone etc. It's not rocket science!

In several municipalities I work in, an arborist report has to be completed prior to the development/building permit being issued. A portion of the arborist report includes root zone protection. However, not all municipalities demand periodic and completed arborist inspections.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Whats the big deal its just a tree! Says the guy who lives in a house made of wood and uses paper made from wood pulp to wipe his ...

Good Luck, sounds like you are doing damage control too little, too late. You could always get the news media involved.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I see this over and over again: Arborists don't get called in until mid-project. By then, of course, the damage has been done. To protect yourself, write daily reports from the time you sign on to a given project until your last day at the site. I keep all of my reports, even years after a project is completed. Pictures are helpful, as a way to show what you reported on. Even on municipal gig contracts, where it clearly states that a Certified Arborist must be on-site during construction activities within drip lines, do I get a call until the project is well on its way. Yeah, it's frustrating.

 

[treeseer]

You are in for a battle--get the ANSI standards on trees and construction and the new ISA BMP's too. Then document the many ways they screwed up before you arrived. You cannot be held responsible for waht happened before you got there.

you may need an experienced consultant to help make your case. That contract could kill your company.

inch thick or not, the key portions of that contract should have been changed or somehow disclaimed.

federal money? call your congressperson.

No sarcasm--what do you have to lose by contacting higherups?

 

[buzz sawyer]

What? The roots are underground - how can driving a dozer over them cause a problem?
Had a housing project started here - they dug and drove up to about 4 feet from several 50'-60' Norway spruce and expected them to live. They're gone now. I have to admit - I wasn't aware of how much damage can be done like that until I found this site. Maybe we all ought to send information like this to local contractors or governmental bodies. They could inform contractors before starting the project.

 

[Bermie]

Construction can't damage trees, surely you know that...!

The line I often hear after I complain about bashed trunks, ripped roots, torn limbs, concrete washings on root zones, set down sites on root zones, parking areas and soil dumps on root zones...'it's all right, she'll spring back, you watch...'

I have watched the biggest Mahogany on the Island gradually decline year after year over about 6 years...only on the side where they had 10' of soil piled for 18 months, up next to the trunk, then used a bobcat on a rainy day to move it and spread it...I have contacted the owner, spoken to others who have spoken to the owner...nothing happens.
The soil was compacted, the roots and trunk were damaged, the grade was changed, now the whole side is noticably sparse in leaf growth, shoot extension is almost nil, lots of dieback...the other side is fine.

Its right on a major intersection, its got to be well over 100 years old, its like 4' Dbh, with probably 60' canopy spread, a shocker and a tragedy!

I had just finished transplanting some 15' coconut palms, to go into the deck of a new restaurant, and maybe a week later the plumbers trenched a new sewage line not 6" from the trunk through the rootball of one palm! I threw a major hissy fit and we d@*n near lost the palm, the heart leaf went all floppy for about a week, I kept watering it with root stimulant (some kind of snake oil additive) and it finally pulled through. Those plumbers never forgot their encounter with me I can tell you!

Or howabout the time the painters started spraying the buildings with muriatic acid WITHOUT covering any of the foundation planting....or the cleaners dumping their nasty buckets of lestoil and crap into the flowerbeds...or the roof painters powerwashing the roofs, and all their water and bleach and paint flakes goes into the bedding and the foundation planting...DON"T get me started...oh, I have

I used to work in a hotel...seen it all!

 

[ATH]

I had just finished transplanting some 15' coconut palms, to go into the deck of a new restaurant, and maybe a week later the plumbers trenched a new sewage line not 6" from the trunk through the rootball of one palm! I threw a major hissy fit and we d@*n near lost the palm, the heart leaf went all floppy for about a week, I kept watering it with root stimulant (some kind of snake oil additive) and it finally pulled through. Those plumbers never forgot their encounter with me I can tell you!

Sounds harsh....but I kinda wish you didn't 'save' the palm. Sure, they won't forget you: You are the crazy guy who went nuts over nothing.

Next time: "Yeah, we can put the line that close to the trunk. The tree may look funky for a little while, but 'it's all right, she'll spring back, you watch...'"

Not only do you have a plumber who dones't think he hurts trees, you probably also have one tree that is going to struggle more than the others and possibly even die in a couple of years...and guess whose fault it will be.

 

[Bermie]

Sounds harsh....but I kinda wish you didn't 'save' the palm. Sure, they won't forget you: You are the crazy guy who went nuts over nothing.

Next time: "Yeah, we can put the line that close to the trunk. The tree may look funky for a little while, but 'it's all right, she'll spring back, you watch...'"

Not only do you have a plumber who dones't think he hurts trees, you probably also have one tree that is going to struggle more than the others and possibly even die in a couple of years...and guess whose fault it will be.

Well actually I was the girl who went nuts, and it wasn't 'NOTHING" dude! How would they have felt if their plumbing was in first and I came along and cut it all up and rerouted it and stuck my palms in and didn't ask and I'm not a plumber? The fact that they did it without asking one question or making sure it would be ok was rude and arrogant. Its more the complete disregard of some contractors for anything pertaining to soil, roots or plants that ticks me off!

Coconut palms go for $100 per foot of clear trunk, so it was at least a $1000 tree, then add the cost of the crane and installation...and you can't go to a tree farm and buy another, you have to go door to door and offer cash to dig them up from people's property!

Now its 15 years since that incident and the palm is doing just fine thank you!!! It (and five others) went through a tropical storm six weeks after installation, survived the root massacre, and have been an integral part of an outdoor dining deck for all that time. Oh yes it also went through a cat 4 hurricane five years ago....still standing!

 

[jmack]

try to get involved guy you are an expert get on the tree board in rc ca suggest one if they dont have one and reveiew what the planning and building departments approves i think we all learned as americans politics are not just gonna take care of itself