Is this oak dying?

[scubadude1188]

Ants

Back to the ants. I've heard they actually help the tree because they eat any fungus that might try to grow in the tree.

 

[pdqdl]

Ants in decaying trees:

There seems to be a lot of different opinions on this topic. Some say that they don't hurt the tree at all, others will be glad to sell insect control to get rid of them. Here is my opinion, along with a few facts that I hope go uncontested:

The common carpenter ants chew holes into the dead or decaying wood, and make nests. This is a fact. While doing this, they will be accelerating the penetration into the non-dacaying wood of the decay pathogens (just my opinion?). The tunnelling they create MUST weaken the structure of the tree somewhat (fact!...in my opinion). So while the carpenter ants do not chew holes into healthy trees, and do not "eat" the wood like termited do, I believe that they are not good for the structural wood in the trunk.

Scubadude: I have never heard that they eat the funguses that decay wood. Carpenter ants are a very predatory type of any, and they are even difficult to eliminate from nearby houses because they do not typically feed from the various ant "baits"

While they are living there, they do benefit the tree by preying on many of the insects that feed on the tree. They also invade homes and nearby structures; this is bad.

I spray to kill them when asked to by a customer.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

i dont like em! there i said it! in fact carpentar ants can just bugger off as far as im concerned lol.

here is the fact.....
carpentar ants eat wood. tree-wood=bad(unless its a removal lol).

just because wood in a tree is dead doesnt mean the tree wont miss it.

 

[pdqdl]

...

here is the fact.....
carpentar ants eat wood. tree-wood=bad(unless its a removal lol).

just because wood in a tree is dead doesnt mean the tree wont miss it.

I like that! A rather elegant proof of my position, as verbosely stated above.

 

[OilHead]

If you have squrells some of that may be from them.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

yeah squirrels are dinner in the country.

 

[Garfield]

Best way to get rid of them....

what do you kill them with? It would make the guy feel better if I got rid of them i think. Thanks

 

[pdqdl]

what do you kill them with? It would make the guy feel better if I got rid of them i think. Thanks

Which ? Squirrels or ants.

410 shotgun works well for squirrels, 22 if you are in the country. 12 guage if you are not going to eat them [or don't mind biting the extra shot].

Ants: so many insecticides, who can say. Dursban was my favorite, but it's largely off the market. Sevin is still around, but never was much good. Diazinon is also hard to find now. I suggest calling your local chemical supplier and asking for their recommendation. Any of the outdoor pyrethrins are probably just fine.

Don't have a local chemical supplier? That means you probably don't have an applicators license, and probably shouldn't be messing with the good stuff. In that event, go by KMART or Walmart, buy some ortho product labeled for killing carpenter ants and have at it. It will probably do just as well.

 

[treesandsurf]

All this focus on symptoms? Why not treat the cause??

Not sure what the holes or decay is from there on that oak tree but I wonder if there were improper pruning cuts made above the cracking area? Hard to tell from the pictures. The mulching and changing grade will most likely do more for the tree than wasting time to mess with ants and squirrels

Nice tree, what type of oak?

jp

 

[ClimbinArbor]

Which ? Squirrels or ants.

410 shotgun works well for squirrels, 22 if you are in the country. 12 guage if you are not going to eat them [or don't mind biting the extra shot].

lmao. nothing like eating squirrel like its watermelon lol

 

[Industry]

Ants DO = Bad for the tree. They will remove large amounts of wood, decayed AND healthy wood. As mentioned before, they don't eat the wood, they simply turn it into sawdust and get rid of it so they can make their home. They will also set about making satellite nest in the surrounding areas. Most likely in one of the houses close by, where they will weaken the structure over time(sometimes a short amount of time). Pyretherins are a good way to get rid of them.

 

[KiwiTreeSteve]

i dont like em! there i said it! in fact carpentar ants can just bugger off as far as im concerned lol.

here is the fact.....
carpentar ants eat wood. tree-wood=bad(unless its a removal lol).

just because wood in a tree is dead doesnt mean the tree wont miss it.

im with you ClimbinArbor

 

[treeseer]

Ants DO = Bad for the tree. They will remove large amounts of wood, decayed AND healthy wood. .

Can you please provide some evidence of this new discovery?

 

[pdqdl]

Can you please provide some evidence of this new discovery?

That sounds like an argument being proposed, yet you have not disagreed. Too subtle for me; do you think that carpenter ants DO or DO NOT damage a tree with their infestation ?

My position was stated clearly above, I am clearly of the opinion that they are bad for trees.:
****************************************
The common carpenter ants chew holes into the dead or decaying wood, and make nests. This is a fact. While doing this, they will be accelerating the penetration into the non-dacaying wood of the decay pathogens (just my opinion?). The tunnelling they create MUST weaken the structure of the tree somewhat (fact!...in my opinion). So while the carpenter ants do not chew holes into healthy trees, and do not "eat" the wood like termited do, I believe that they are not good for the structural wood in the trunk.
****************************************

If you disagree, please point out where we (those of us that think they are bad) are wrong. Don't ask us to prove our position, we already have!

 

[treesandsurf]

Don't ask us to prove our position, we already have!

You've proven that your position is your position, but not that your position is credible

jp

 

[mckeetree]

Ants DO = Bad for the tree. They will remove large amounts of wood, decayed AND healthy wood. As mentioned before, they don't eat the wood, they simply turn it into sawdust and get rid of it so they can make their home. They will also set about making satellite nest in the surrounding areas. Most likely in one of the houses close by, where they will weaken the structure over time(sometimes a short amount of time). Pyretherins are a good way to get rid of them.

Dr. Alex Shigo, you said you would appear when I needed you.

 

[treeseer]

Dr. Alex Shigo, you said you would appear when I needed you.

Look to the most shimmering star in the night sky, the most piercing ray on a sunny day. He is there and he is here.

Hmm, what's in that coffee?

Guys, we are all right. Ants are generally benign as they work outside the walled-off living wood. They keep their tunnels clean. Only rarely do carpenter ants break codit boundaries. I've seen tunnels extend an inch or two (digging for picture) into living wood. This imo is reason enough to go after them.

I've heard that carpenter ants exude a corrosive fluid that accelerates decay, but have no citation on that.

 

[Ed Roland]

Dr. Shigo says leave em be.

Dr. Bruce Freidrich says they can disrupt live cells.

I will reduce populations if the customer wants. But the problem is that ant baits are very toxic. Try to educate the customer.

 

[pdqdl]

Yet another non-commital comment with no opinion.

You've proven that your position is your position, but not that your position is credible

jp

No, I made a logical presentation of facts, observations, and opinions, which supporte my conclusion. I further welcomed a point for point dialog/argument. So far, no one has done more than offer unsupported, flippant comments that are vaguely deprecating, but don't even have the guts to present a contrary opinion.

This vacuum of contrary commentary forces me to conclude that the people who would disagree with me are unable to analyse a situation and make logical comments which disagree. Even doing as much as presenting pertinant quotations from other sources would be valid, but all you wise guys have to offer is illogical wise-guy comments.

I have no respect for wise-guys that offer quick comebacks and never even commit their own opinion or experience.

THERE ! It's in your court. Hit me with your best shot.

 

[pdqdl]

...

Guys, we are all right. Ants are generally benign as they work outside the walled-off living wood. They keep their tunnels clean. Only rarely do carpenter ants break codit boundaries. I've seen tunnels extend an inch or two (digging for picture) into living wood. This imo is reason enough to go after them.

I've heard that carpenter ants exude a corrosive fluid that accelerates decay, but have no citation on that.

I have no argument with your points; and you seem to agree with me. Thanks !

The fact remains that where they tunnel, they cause structural damage. When they tunnel from decaying wood into structurally sound wood, they carry the fungal pathogens with them and accelerate the decay.