ISA mag. carries ad for Jiraffe

[clearance]

Flipping throught the ISA mag at work the other day I saw an advertisement for the Jirafe/Giraffe whatever, the line clearance machine. I think its a pretty cool machine myself but why is it advertised in the ISA mag?

If you don't know it is a boom mounted on a skidder or tracked chassis with a big circular blade at the end. The operator sits in his cab and sidelimbs trees on the r.o.w. Course the cuts can't be to pretty, no proper collar cuts like I make (even the I climb with spurs, of course), no, we are talking nasty stubs, flush cuts and no consideration to correct laterals.


So why does the ISA, who extolls proper tree care, carry advertiing for this tree butchering, hacks wet dream machine in thier rag?


Principles huh? whatever.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

I'd have to say for the money. Accepting advertising money for ads about equipment who's proper usage results in tree abuse should be off limits for the ISA, IMO.

Sure you jest. The ISA is a great deal more practical than that. We are talking ROW trees...they are weeds.

The MECH Trimmers probably allow more trees to live as a result of their existence.

Even if the ROWs were done manually, imagine the bill passed on there, do you think a crew is going to go along and take the time with proper cuts?

Tree abuse. Do they really suffer? Feel pain? Cry at night when we aren't looking? Should we ban the woodpecker? The little tree torturers!

Do you mow your lawn? Is this grass abuse? They are plants too ya know!

The only reason we care about proper pruning is for the conservation of valuable trees and the function and esthetics thereof. Do we go out into the vast timbers and care for every tree as if it was in the front lawn? Think of all the forgotten trees! Is this not tree neglect? What are we to do?

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Flipping throught the ISA mag at work the other day I saw an advertisement for the Jirafe/Giraffe whatever, the line clearance machine. I think its a pretty cool machine myself but why is it advertised in the ISA mag?

If you don't know it is a boom mounted on a skidder or tracked chassis with a big circular blade at the end. The operator sits in his cab and sidelimbs trees on the r.o.w. Course the cuts can't be to pretty, no proper collar cuts like I make (even the I climb with spurs, of course), no, we are talking nasty stubs, flush cuts and no consideration to correct laterals.


So why does the ISA, who extolls proper tree care, carry advertiing for this tree butchering, hacks wet dream machine in thier rag?


Principles huh? whatever.

I know you're getting a kick out of it. On the ROW I think this is proper tree care. I for one applaud the ISA for taking a stand for their principles with respect to practicality. That is a principle in itself.

My super just made a trip to see them at the factory. Can't wait to run one. I'll be thinking of all the bleeding barks around here. That's a joke..don't anyone take that personal!

Meanwhile, I'm happy to make proper cuts where it is proper...right in the coop member's front yard. There I genuinely care. I even care on the roadside ROWs, but I'd rather remove some as opposed to what I have to do to some.

I take what I have to, leave what I can. Same thinking from the controls of a Jarraff....different setting, different result.

 

[treeseer]

Good posts, termite man. If anyone is dedicated to hunting for hypocrisy in any person or organization they are sure to find it. But it's easy to see that rural ROW is a different beast than the urban realm, so different machines and methods fit there.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Good posts, termite man. If anyone is dedicated to hunting for hypocrisy in any person or organization they are sure to find it. But it's easy to see that rural ROW is a different beast than the urban realm, so different machines and methods fit there.

Which is why it is called vegetation management vs arboriculture or forestry.

ANSI a300 takes the need for high production in rural area into account.

The hype about proper cuts is when dealing win an individual tree in a landscape that may be the sole large woody plant that person may own.

 

[JimL]

ROW work is about getting mileage. Good jarraff operator can go alot faster than several buckets can, sure you don't use it on a yard tree but in the right of way its a huge time saver....

 

[lxt]

I dont know about the j raffe being a proper machine in any sense of the word, on the utilities properties ive worked on proper cuts are utilized in every facet of veg. management, street trees, row trees, transmission line trees, etc... As for these trees being unwanted or "weeds" Im a little puzzled here!!!

So the white oaks, red oaks, walnuts, ash, cherry, maples, etc... are considered weeds now? because they reside in a ROW? what a contradictory bunch of crap some of you preach!! I utilize proper care no matter where/what tree Im trimming although utility trimming is less pleasing to the eye than the residential side!!!

bottom line this company paid for advertising & the I.S.A took their money, ive seen ads for buckingham spikes in their magazines along with many other products that offer a service that this organization preaches against!!!

You guys can praise the I.S.A all you want, but when it comes down to it they are a business wanting to make money off a trade that can provide it. lets figure it out!! In tree care as a whole most have no college or very little college, we came up through the ranks, honed our skills & for the most part have the ability to make more money than many with a college degree!!!

The ISA knows this!! hence the reason they have their noses in this field, not for the care of it but for the money aspects of it, & their constant ad another certification to the mix just proves it!!

True bottom line: we the non-college types cant be allowed to make good money & if we do someone wants us to pay for it other than the GOVT. enter here the I.S.A, funny I dont see them complain about Illegal immigrants, hell most of their training aides are in spanish!!! wonder why? MONEY!!!!perhaps.


LXT.......................

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Dear puzzled,

A tree is a plant.

A weed is a plant out of place.

(I felt like that would be common knowledge in such a forum. I didn't mean to trip anyone up.)

Thus, it means that no matter what it is, nor how much it is worshipped, and hugged, loved, and heralded, if it is where it doesn't belong, it has to go, or be cut back.

A mechtrimmer is a very viable way to do that on the backwoods ROWs. It's way more productive and safer than any other method for its purpose and it beats the old school way of spraying a ton of chems for sure.

Now that is environmentally sound, safer, and economically responsible. Anything else in the efforts of proper pruning where it is not proper is fanatical.

I'm discussing major backwoods ROWs here, which is where these machines are designed to operate. It is their purpose. It is their place.

Everywhere else, I'm all for proper cuts for more than one reason.

I like trees, I don't pray to them or spend time helping to hold them up or anything, but I like them and it puzzles me why people plant trees under power lines in the first place, and then complain or distress about what has to take place as a result of their actions.

Educated people don't mind, and if they aren't educated, then it's part of my job to educate them.

I deal with rural residence all the time, in Champaign County, IL. USA no less, and I hate to break the news to these good folks about what has to happen to their tree(s), but it's my job and I'm out to do it right.

If I end up on a backwoods ROW, I'm going to do it right there too...in a Jarraff.

Now then, give me one of these in the spirit of Edward Scissorhands and I'll give you proper punting cuts all day long!

 

[lxt]

In utility work many different methods are used, no problem there!! however I think the main focus here is the machine doing the work & the result of such vs the I.S.A`s preached protocol.

I am puzzled in the fact that an organization preaches,lobby`s,sells,etc... the hows & whys regarding the proper care of trees, I mean would Shigo have been so impartial as to what trees get trimmed this way or that way depending on there setting.

Personally I understand!! but many on here have argued & protested in a tree hugger fashion!!! quoting Shigo & refering to the ISA`s way of how it must be done!! So to see the ISA promote items to sell or use in the field that go against the status quo only enhances the fact their a money grubbing bunch of hipocrites.

In the realm of utility work its not whether its a proper cut or not as long as the lines are clear(in some cases wonder how that utility specialist certification that the ISA promotes works in regards to what they preach?

I think this is where clearance was coming from, the ISA says it must be done a certain way, but for the glory of the dollar will knowingly promote that which is contrary to what they say!!!

LXT........

 

[treeseer]

lxt if you want any of your rant to have credibility, maybe you can cite some of this "preaching", in context. I've read just about everything--maybe everything!-- published by ISA and I don't see any reason why their mag cannot or should not have ads for Jarraffs or spikes. That's just silly.

Termite man shows good understanding of both worlds.

 

[oldirty]

Termite man shows good understanding of both worlds.

the proverbial pat on the arse. it should be a proud day in the life of a termite....man.


as much as you might hate to do it, sometimes they have to go and other times they have to get butchered by a machine so that i may sit here comfortably with the lights on and type to you.



oldirty

 

[DDM]

I guess there implying a certified arborist should operate it so as to make correct
branch cuts.

 

[treeseer]

I guess there implying a certified arborist should operate it so as to make correct
branch cuts.

David, can you define "correct"?

“Pruning properly done is one of the most difficult tree treatments. Every branch will be different… Rules are too absolute for Mother Nature.” (Dr. Alex Shigo, A New Tree Biology).

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Quite often these backwoods ROW's get put off because climbing rates per mile are too expensive. Per mile climbing

Didn't they blame that huge blackout a few years ago on a branch falling in the woods?

Another alternative is widen the mow path for the verge. People would really scream if it was applied to the standards.

Gopher is contract forester for a rural coop, some for the stories he has for people in "high rent" areas actions in his attempts to remediate past poor work are mind boggling.

 

[Themadd1]

Does anyone know what the rec's are for utility specialist cert?

It talks about lateral vs horizontal cuts but not sure what that entails past the arborist cert?

I can see the reasons for using the equipment in the right circumstances, and a tree growing in a forest is not a weed, it is in the proper place. A weed is a nuisance as far as I am concerned. Proper practice by utilities has never been considered as far as I can see, I am a "tree hugger" I like doing things the proper way but I will also never get involved in this type of work.

Good luck getting them to pull the ad. I cant wait to see the average tree "care" company using this type of equipment in my neck of the woods. I will be the first on the job site to raize hell...

Until that happens I dont see the harm. Stick to issues like the topping of trees by utilities when there are targets around before going after the "improper/proper" work here.

 

[lxt]

lxt if you want any of your rant to have credibility, maybe you can cite some of this "preaching", in context. I've read just about everything--maybe everything!-- published by ISA and I don't see any reason why their mag cannot or should not have ads for Jarraffs or spikes. That's just silly.

Termite man shows good understanding of both worlds.

Seer, first off im not ranting! I worked utility!! & arent you one of the guys that complains about the use of spikes in trims?, arent you one of the guys that preaches about proper cuts, methods, care, etc...? arent you one of the guys that promotes the I.S.A & what they stand for & the great new direction that tree care needs to go in?

funny how YOU & others are quick to bust on someone for their use of spikes in trims & the way it was trimmed, hell you guys even post pic`s of others work only to critisize their topping or non-collar cut approach.

Thats all ok, uhh? ISA"mother of all tree B.S" can promote when PAID for the very items that they would critisize the use of at any of their symposiums.

Im not a tree hugger in any sense, I do what I have to & can the safest way possible, ive done the things that many would find offensive because there was no proper way!!!!! a 30ft sycamore sucker in the 3 phase is hard to find a lateral 1/3 to cut back to sometimes!!

My point is the ISA will preach how to do something right & state there is no tolerance for wrong doing" what a sin to nature" but in the same breath will advertise to sell the items that are responsible(in their minds) for the wrong doing!!!

as for citing the preaching, where would you like me start? arborist cert manual, trees in urban landscape, Shigo`s tree pruning"a worldwide photo guide", jeff jepsons tree climber companion? well heres over $200.00 worth of preaching & you may get a couple ceu`s!!!!!

Personally I dont care what anyone uses to trim trees as long as those I work for are happy with my work!! to each his own! BE SAFE!

LXT..............

 

[RedlineIt]

Newly added to the treesaregood.com FAQ page:


Q: When is it OK to utterly mangle a tree?

A: When I can't see it from my house.



RedlineIt

 

[clearance]

Newly added to the treesaregood.com FAQ page:


Q: When is it OK to utterly mangle a tree?

A: When I can't see it from my house.



RedlineIt

Perfect, I felt that I had to bring this up, B.C. Hydro, to thier credit, does not accept stubs or flush cuts anywhere. That means way out in the bush or in front of your house.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Does anyone know what the rec's are for utility specialist cert?

It talks about lateral vs horizontal cuts but not sure what that entails past the arborist cert?

I can see the reasons for using the equipment in the right circumstances, and a tree growing in a forest is not a weed, it is in the proper place. A weed is a nuisance as far as I am concerned. Proper practice by utilities has never been considered as far as I can see, I am a "tree hugger" I like doing things the proper way but I will also never get involved in this type of work.

Good luck getting them to pull the ad. I cant wait to see the average tree "care" company using this type of equipment in my neck of the woods. I will be the first on the job site to raize hell...

Until that happens I dont see the harm. Stick to issues like the topping of trees by utilities when there are targets around before going after the "improper/proper" work here.

A tree in the forrest is not a weed, I never said it was, however, a tree in the forrest along the ROW is nothing more and nothing less than a big glorified weed.


If you wanna huge it on my watch, don't forget your helmet. :greenchainsaw:

 

[DDM]

David, can you define "correct"?

“Pruning properly done is one of the most difficult tree treatments. Every branch will be different… Rules are too absolute for Mother Nature.” (Dr. Alex Shigo, A New Tree Biology).

I was being sarcastic. And would like anyone to hit the correct limb much less branch with a giraffe.