I've been busy designing & 3d printing stuff...

[dumbarky]

I guess I am the dumb one in the bunch, but here goes. How does this work? Do you just make a picture of say any object? Then feed the dimensions into a program and this printer builds the part up layer by layer until the part is finished. Or, do you put the original in a x-ray like machine that takes all the measurements, maps it and then prints it? I guess I sound pretty ignorant, but I have no idea, how what your doing works. However I really like it. Technology really interests me, especially if it means you can fabricate parts and tools like that. Also what materials are available to use?

Sorry for all the questions sometimes I get to chasing rabbits and then see a squirrel.

 

[jackjcc]

I guess I am the dumb one in the bunch, but here goes. How does this work? Do you just make a picture of say any object? Then feed the dimensions into a program and this printer builds the part up layer by layer until the part is finished. Or, do you put the original in a x-ray like machine that takes all the measurements, maps it and then prints it? I guess I sound pretty ignorant, but I have no idea, how what your doing works. However I really like it. Technology really interests me, especially if it means you can fabricate parts and tools like that. Also what materials are available to use?

Sorry for all the questions sometimes I get to chasing rabbits and then see a squirrel.

Both scenarios you described are possible.

 

[Marshy]

Well it's not quite as you explained but close in a sense...

Typically someone will make a machine drawing or a blueprint of the object on the computer in software (Computer Aided Drafting = CAD). Depending on the software you actually build a 3D model of it in the software (YouTube the words parametric solid modeling) and out of the software it might have the ability to create tool paths on CNC mill or lathes or possibly a water jet, laser cutting machine or one of these 3D printers (Computer Aided Machining = CAM) The code is down loaded into the machine and it gives it all the information in building the part. The 3D printing machines vary in materials. There are numerous types of machines and some do plastics and some do metals. I cannot state specifically what materials are all available without lookin it up. The ones that make metal parts use a laser to sinter (bind) the metal together.

 

[dumbarky]

So I guess if you can get the information into the printer, then as long as it is applicable to be made out of that particular material, you could make anything. Assuming machine size is capable. Sounds expensive. Will the technology become more affordable in the future?

 

[Marshy]

So I guess if you can get the information into the printer, then as long as it is applicable to be made out of that particular material, you could make anything. Assuming machine size is capable. Sounds expensive. Will the technology become more affordable in the future?

Yes. 3D printing has not been around for very long compared to traditional machine tools. It was designed to fill a niche market for rapid prototyping small and med parts just to get a visual of the part and check fit. In the last 10 years they have grown in complexity and accuracy and can now create parts that are functional and have good strength. As the technology continues to develop it will reduce in price but in an effort to increase speed, accuracy and structural sound parts the overall cost will remain high by our terms for the newest machines. But it might save companies significant amount of monies to be able to make a quick one off part so they might consider it cheap compared to the traditional method of say something lie casting and molding.

 

[Marshy]

They are actually using it to create sand molds for cast parts that are complex like pump impellers. They are significantly more accurate than the old fashion method pattern makers.

 

[Wagnerwerks]

Fyi

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-13/american-company-makes-worlds-first-3d-printed-car/5810234

 

[Marshy]

Here is a way to take an existing part and scan it and make a model in CAD. It also uses lasers and it what's called 3D point cloud. It basically records thousands of points per second and map them into a cloud several times over in the software to creat a surface. These come in all types of sizes and variations. Accuracy is good on the ones with the arm, usually within a thousandth of an inch which is excellent for cast parts.

 

[LegDeLimber]

This guy used to write at least one magazine column called "Hardware Hacker" waaay back before the 6:00 news managed to develop and market such a bad association with the words hacker and hacking.
http://www.tinaja.com/santa01.shtml
Funny that I haven't thought to look for his stuff online before now.

 

[Tree Sling'r]

What oil and mix ratio do the programs use?

 

[Chris-PA]

Marshy has got it right. We had prototypes of a plastic housing done this way quite a few years ago when it was referred to a rapid prototyping - 3D printing is partly a new name and some hype, but there is also a lot of technology advancement going on. You first make a drawing in a 3D CAD software package - we're using AutoDesk Inventor, which is quite expensive and takes a while to learn. Drawings typically start with a series of 2D "sketches", which are really traditional 2D CAD drawings of lines, arcs, circles, etc., and then these are turned into 3D shapes by extruding, revolving, etc.

When the 3D drawing is done, you export the file in a particular defined format (.STL). Next that file is run through a program called a "slicer", which converts into 'G-codes", which is mostly XYZ coordinates in a format similar to what is used with numerically controlled machine tools. More importantly this is where you set up whether it will will be solid or hollow, what fill level and pattern will be used, what surface resolution is used (which is mostly the Z-axis print speed, as the string width is fixed), and create any support structure needed.

Then the G-codes are sent the printer, which has a heated extruder head - basically a heated tube with a gear mechanism to push the plastic string through it - run by servo motors and screws that can move it around to precise locations. Then it draws the part by layering thin (0.4mm) strings of hot plastic upon a flat surface.

There are many limitations in the characteristics of the materials, the resolution of the part features and the surface finish, and the need to print a support structure under overhanging features, which must then be cut away.

The majority of 3D printers use thermoplastic string that looks like a roll of string trimmer line. There are a couple of common materials available; PLA (plant based), PETG, ABS and others. The surface quality is poor and it is very slow. However, it is still a useful tool - we got one to make prototype parts, but more importantly to make production fixtures and tooling. There are many of these that do not need to be made of harder materials, and it gets away from the need to design something so that it can be fixtured and milled. I can make other kinds of shapes now.

The whole issue of scanning is something I have not explored - they are expensive and have many limitations.

 

[Saw Dr.]

Looks good. Where do I order a batch of 2100 air filter lids? Maybe someday they will be able to produce rubber or elastomer parts. A/V bushings for the early saws are getting scarce. Sure be nice to get a set of Echo 610 buffers, or 032.

 

[Marshy]

...
The whole issue of scanning is something I have not explored - they are expensive and have many limitations.

Yes, just like the your printers the scanners have limitations too. The rover arm is a newer concept. The original technology started as a rotary table and a fixed head that images the part as it turns. I don't think they are the same 3D Point Cloud technology. None the less they are improving the way the industry does re-manufacturing an reverse engineering. They are highly valuable for reverse engineering molded parts that have complex geometry like pump casing, impellers things of that nature. Then those files can be used in a 3D printer to build sand molds for casting all different metals.

 

[angelo c]

Marshy has got it right. We had prototypes of a plastic housing done this way quite a few years ago when it was referred to a rapid prototyping - 3D printing is partly a new name and some hype, but there is also a lot of technology advancement going on. You first make a drawing in a 3D CAD software package - we're using AutoDesk Inventor, which is quite expensive and takes a while to learn. Drawings typically start with a series of 2D "sketches", which are really traditional 2D CAD drawings of lines, arcs, circles, etc., and then these are turned into 3D shapes by extruding, revolving, etc.

When the 3D drawing is done, you export the file in a particular defined format (.STL). Next that file is run through a program called a "slicer", which converts into 'G-codes", which is mostly XYZ coordinates in a format similar to what is used with numerically controlled machine tools. More importantly this is where you set up whether it will will be solid or hollow, what fill level and pattern will be used, what surface resolution is used (which is mostly the Z-axis print speed, as the string width is fixed), and create any support structure needed.

Then the G-codes are sent the printer, which has a heated extruder head - basically a heated tube with a gear mechanism to push the plastic string through it - run by servo motors and screws that can move it around to precise locations. Then it draws the part by layering thin (0.4mm) strings of hot plastic upon a flat surface.

There are many limitations in the characteristics of the materials, the resolution of the part features and the surface finish, and the need to print a support structure under overhanging features, which must then be cut away.

The majority of 3D printers use thermoplastic string that looks like a roll of string trimmer line. There are a couple of common materials available; PLA (plant based), PETG, ABS and others. The surface quality is poor and it is very slow. However, it is still a useful tool - we got one to make prototype parts, but more importantly to make production fixtures and tooling. There are many of these that do not need to be made of harder materials, and it gets away from the need to design something so that it can be fixtured and milled. I can make other kinds of shapes now.

The whole issue of scanning is something I have not explored - they are expensive and have many limitations.

Ahhhh the "rapid prototyping" days...

funny story: I participated in the "principle placements" and "private placements" ( initial investment banking phases) on one of the now major players in the 3d market. That was in the mid 90's. I have an original "red herring" offering and some very early annual statements.
yes we did very well with the investment but sold wayyyyyy too early..it took nearly 20 years for the market to develop into the "tiny" market it is now.
it is the future. I have since repurchased shares and will continue to do so....so you all please use this technology often !!!! find new uses please...
remember when nobody has a 'reasonable' use for the "home computer" ????
someday everyone will have a "printer" in their homes and nothing will be "delivered" other then plastics stock and base materials....nothing will be made in China and "shipped" back to us....bye bye Chicom blow molders and die guys !!!!! oh to dream !!!!

 

[Marshy]

I realy think these will help us in our space quest on day. Imagine taking one in your space ship so that you can make parts in space when your flux capacitor craps out. Of course you will need materials to build it but it might might work in a pinch to save the lives of the crew.

 

[Chris-PA]

Ahhhh the "rapid prototyping" days...

funny story: I participated in the "principle placements" and "private placements" ( initial investment banking phases) on one of the now major players in the 3d market. That was in the mid 90's. I have an original "red herring" offering and some very early annual statements.
yes we did very well with the investment but sold wayyyyyy too early..it took nearly 20 years for the market to develop into the "tiny" market it is now.
it is the future. I have since repurchased shares and will continue to do so....so you all please use this technology often !!!! find new uses please...
remember when nobody has a 'reasonable' use for the "home computer" ????
someday everyone will have a "printer" in their homes and nothing will be "delivered" other then plastics stock and base materials....nothing will be made in China and "shipped" back to us....bye bye Chicom blow molders and die guys !!!!! oh to dream !!!!

It will be interesting to see where it goes. The hardware is pretty simple and can be made even more simple, so it is quite possible to get the cost of the printer down far enough to be widely produced and distributed. But what do you do with it?

The materials, finish, process and speed limitations present significant problems, and then there is the big one - drawing/creating the parts. It's certainly possible to eventually have a library of STL files either for sale or open source, but if you want to make something new it requires a big step in cost & skills. A seat of Inventor or Solid Works costs maybe 5-10X what the printer did, and a big investment in time if you don't already know how to use it. There are less sophisticated packages available now, some free, and there will be more no doubt - but there is a reason that software costs so much.

Since it isn't really new, my guess is that after the present hype peaks, it will settle down into a larger market than it was, but not take over the world. A good part of the present fascination with it is the idea that it's OK that we've lost our manufacturing capability because that's all obsolete now and we'll just print out what we need - this is silly fantasy.

 

[Chris-PA]

so that you can make parts in space when your flux capacitor craps out.

LOL - I have to head back out to the production floor, as we've had a rash of failures in testing - a replacement capacitor for an obsolete part is trapping solder flux underneath that will not wash out. It is literally a flux capacitor, and of course the jokes are flying. That is until they find out how much work it's going to be to fix it..........

 

[gregsl]

OP here, looks like im late for my own party lol.

Lots of interesting posts to catch up on.

I will post some pics of the parts i received back from the printer.

Im currently at a crossroads... the printer used to charge by the hour. But have recently switched to charging by the weight of printing material used. This has sent me back to the drawing board- trying to design the parts with the least amount of material with the most strength... its not easy.

Of course it would be easier if i had my own 3d printer. However i dont have $600 laying around.

ChrisPA- what brand/model printer are you using?

 

[Chris-PA]

ChrisPA- what brand/model printer are you using?

We're using a Fablicator, which is locally made: http://www.fablicator.com/

 

[Chris-PA]

My latest is a shim to seal the air filter on my McCulloch GZ4000 clone:



More of it is here: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/my-first-strato-porting-job.250199/page-4#post-5010942