Jonsered Chainsaws

[Real1shepherd]

I concur.....not a big fan of the points elimination chips. Though I expect they do seem to "Wake up" a saw suffering from burnt, oxidized or points contact that have worked/worn together. So for the un-knowing they seem like a miracle!! A few years ago I was messing around with a non-running 49sp that I picked up. The piston was scored, ring stuck etc. This being before the aftermarket 49 pistons had arrived and me not having a suitable replacement single ring 49sp piston, so I cleaned up the cyl which turned out to be flawless and installed a slightly higher compression two ring piston, wristpin bearing and thrust washers from a 52/52E. I was most concerned about the difference in weight between the 52 and 49 piston but found the crankshaft carried the same part number so I put it together with new seals, gaskets. carb kit and fuel line. It already had an Atom chip installed so I thought I would try it that way. It started and ran good but had a very odd note to the exhaust...I do not know this for certain but I theorize those chips work on a multi spark system of timing....in other words say it triggers the coil three times per compression stroke, the first is late enough for the saw to start good, the second is fair from idle to 4-5000 rpm and the third is early enough to simulate full advance for WOT. The biggest problem is the last two firings don't give the coil time to recharge fully so the spark is less powerful. I used the saw for a few months and never got used to the sound of the exhaust....most folks would likely not notice this...but me, running a number of 49sp saws with stock mufflers it was noticeable. I eventually replaced the chip with a new set of points and the saw ran stronger and sounded normal after that. The chip did work and in the case of not being able to repair or replace your points is a good alternative to scrapping the saw but I don't take them to be better than a good set of points set properly.

I like the theory that peeps who thinks a chip ‘wakes up the saw’ are dealing with worn points and incorrect timing.

There’s no way I’m gonna consent that a chipped point saw is gonna give a better spark/run than the OE setup....not with J’reds.

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

I like the theory that peeps who thinks a chip ‘wakes up the saw’ are dealing with worn points and incorrect timing.

There’s no way I’m gonna consent that a chipped point saw is gonna give a better spark/run than the OE setup....not with J’reds.

Kevin

Yeah...again I concur......if it came with points...then in the case of Jonsereds saws...the best setup is points properly set are the very best. Of course us old fossils thinks this way only because we know how to deal with points having grown up with cars you had to do a complete tune up on twice a year......nearly anyone born after.....say 1985......will not have a clue as to how to deal with points unless trained in this system by an older mentor....I remember we used to laugh at advertisements in the late 80's saying you would not have to do a tune up on this or that cars for 100,000 miles........chit I've drove .

 

[edju1958]

Well gang,I'd like to change it up a bit.Today I had to tear the front off my J'red 361 to put a new gas tank/oil tank gasket in her.It's only been 36 yrs,since I bought the old girl.Last June my son & I took down a good sized maple for our neighbor & all my limbing saws were in the shop.I had to resuscitate my 361.It had to have fuel put in the carb as a prime,but once she got going it put my son's buddy's Poulan to shame.He couldn't believe my saw was 35 yrs.old.I didn't baby that saw either,that was my go to saw the first yr.I had my house.Anyway,I noticed last yr.that if the saw sat for any length of time,the gas would all leak out,as well as the oil too.I was lucky enough to get two gaskets for the gas/oil tank a couple of weeks ago from my local saw dealer.He started out selling Olympiks & J'reds,now he sells Stihl's & Husky's,but he just happened to have a few parts I was looking for.Unfortunately he couldn't get any recoil pulleys for me.I've looked high & low for those,but to no avail.I took out the four bolts that hold the front tank cover on & I saw why the gas & oil were leaking,there was pretty much no gasket left.Of course over the last few yrs.the E10 didn't help matters much.I now found a place to get E10 free gas.So,if this next gasket lasts for another 36 yrs.,I'll be pushing 100,& I just happen to have another engine to swap into my old girl.Lol

 

[fossil]

The only thing I have to say about the chips that have come in saws I've acquired. I think they all show some timing advance over the stock set points.

I think on some of them the points might be opened a bit to match that though. They do require a snappy pull on the handle to keep from getting bit.
I'd still rather have the points.

 

[edju1958]

Well it seems that I screwed up a simple gasket change.I went to put gas in the saw & it came out almost as fast as I put it in.On the oil side though there were no leaks.It took quite a while of pumping for the the pump to prime (manual),but eventually it did start pumping oil.I don't know if the front cover has a crack in it causing the gas leak,or if something else went wrong.There was nothing left of the old gasket & I made sure what was there I scraped off with a razor knife & then lightly sanded.Could it be possible that the gasket needs to swell?

 

[fossil]

Well it seems that I screwed up a simple gasket change.I went to put gas in the saw & it came out almost as fast as I put it in.On the oil side though there were no leaks.It took quite a while of pumping for the the pump to prime (manual),but eventually it did start pumping oil.I don't know if the front cover has a crack in it causing the gas leak,or if something else went wrong.There was nothing left of the old gasket & I made sure what was there I scraped off with a razor knife & then lightly sanded.Could it be possible that the gasket needs to swell?

It should seal right away. Maybe it got misplaced when you assembled it. You can ditch the gasket and try some Motoseal from Permatex. It works equally as well and can't get out of place. Before you do that, have your son have a look to make sure the leak is coming from the gasket area.

 

[Cantdog]

The only thing I have to say about the chips that have come in saws I've acquired. I think they all show some timing advance over the stock set points.

I think on some of them the points might be opened a bit to match that though. They do require a snappy pull on the handle to keep from getting bit.
I'd still rather have the points.

Yeah...with points you have two variables when considering timing......your point gap (Dwell) and your timing advance adjustment.....generally measured in 1/1000 inch increments before top dead center on the piston. Correct point gap is all important as to much gap and your timing is advanced...to little and it's retarded.....not to say they won't still run out of adjustment...just won't run at optimum....

 

[edju1958]

Good idea Tim,Thanks.

 

[fossil]

Yeah...with points you have two variables when considering timing......your point gap (Dwell) and your timing advance adjustment.....generally measured in 1/1000 inch increments before top dead center on the piston. Correct point gap is all important as to much gap and your timing is advanced...to little and it's retarded.....not to say they won't still run out of adjustment...just won't run at optimum....

I've set lots of points since I started working on cars in 1969. They give you a little leeway on fixed timing engines.

 

[Real1shepherd]

Points are a great system.....pure electronic ignition doesn't let you address dwell easily.

I bought a V-8 Jeep new in 1975....the first yr they had electronic ignition from the factory. I had moved to Portland at the time and the car was completely stalling out at unregular intervals. Those were the days when factories and dealers wouldn't admit to product faults. I had to sort of 'break in' to a dealership and look and their service recalls posted on a board. Previously....they told me that they had no bulletins on the Jeep with regard to my problem. There on their service board was a notification that two different contractors supplied the electronic ignition parts; one for the harness, another for the sensor. Once joined together, they were not dielectric and invisible corrosion formed. That made me mistrustful of dealers to this day. Rough start to the world of electronic ignition....lol!

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

I've set lots of points since I started working on cars in 1969. They give you a little leeway on fixed timing engines.

I can't remember the number of times, back in the day that someone showed up and wanted me to "Throw the timing light" on their cars.....and I had the hardest time getting them to understand that it was useless to set the timing before setting the point dwell.....as degrees of dwell affects the degrees of timing on a 1:1 ratio....in other words if your dwell is off by 5 degrees then your timing is already off by 5 degrees even if it is set to the correct timing advance numbers with the light. Accurately setting the dwell was a pain on a lot of engines......but by far the easiest was the small block Chevy with the door in the dist cap through which you could adjust the dwell with the engine running.

 

[Cantdog]

Points are a great system.....pure electronic ignition doesn't let you address dwell easily.

I bought a V-8 Jeep new in 1975....the first yr they had electronic ignition from the factory. I had moved to Portland at the time and the car was completely stalling out at unregular intervals. Those were the days when factories and dealers wouldn't admit to product faults. I had to sort of 'break in' to a dealership and look and their service recalls posted on a board. Previously....they told me that they had no bulletins on the Jeep with regard to my problem. There on their service board was a notification that two different contractors supplied the electronic ignition parts; one for the harness, another for the sensor. Once joined together, they were not dielectric and invisible corrosion formed. That made me mistrustful of dealers to this day. Rough start to the world of electronic ignition....lol!

Kevin

AMC/Jeep always seemed to never get it quite right on the electronic ign. systems.....always changing to another brand almost yearly. I have an 86 CJ7 with the 258 six. Oh my what a convoluted setup that was.....the electronic ign. actually controlled the carb.....about 20 wires on the carb. from the "brain". It was always having issues. It was the closest attempt at fuel injection while still using an actual two barrel carb. I built a new engine for it last year and used a non-electric carb from an earlier engine and replaced the original electronic dist with an L6 GM HEI ign. dist. This vastly simplified the system as the carb now has only one wire to run the automatic choke and the ign system only uses one wire to run that as well!!! Runs real good this way!!!

 

[edju1958]

A note about AMC - they didfn't make a lot of their own stuff.For example:I had a 1973 DJ5C Postal Jeep that was made by AMC for the U.S.Postal Service after Kaiser was bought out bt AMC.In the DJ series the transmission could've been either a Chrysler tranny,or a Ford tranny.The driveshafts were another mix & match situation.Whoever had the lowest bid with their leftover parts got the contract with AMC.Something I didn't understand until yrs.later - AMC had two different size six cylinder engines - a 232,& a 258.Now with a small vehicle like the DJ postal Jeep you'd think that they'd have the smaller CID engine,but that wasn't the case.AMC used what they had left on hand from another production run & they passed on these "savings"to the U.S.Postal Service.I'm sure that the U.S.Postal Service wasn't the only entity that AMC did this practice with,meaning that John Q.Public was just as susceptible.The engines,trannies,& driveshafts weren't the only thing on a vehicle that AMC had this practice with.Whatever was cheap & fit in their models - that's what they used.

 

[Cantdog]

A note about AMC - they didfn't make a lot of their own stuff.For example:I had a 1973 DJ5C Postal Jeep that was made by AMC for the U.S.Postal Service after Kaiser was bought out bt AMC.In the DJ series the transmission could've been either a Chrysler tranny,or a Ford tranny.The driveshafts were another mix & match situation.Whoever had the lowest bid with their leftover parts got the contract with AMC.Something I didn't understand until yrs.later - AMC had two different size six cylinder engines - a 232,& a 258.Now with a small vehicle like the DJ postal Jeep you'd think that they'd have the smaller CID engine,but that wasn't the case.AMC used what they had left on hand from another production run & they passed on these "savings"to the U.S.Postal Service.I'm sure that the U.S.Postal Service wasn't the only entity that AMC did this practice with,meaning that John Q.Public was just as susceptible.The engines,trannies,& driveshafts weren't the only thing on a vehicle that AMC had this practice with.Whatever was cheap & fit in their models - that's what they used.

True they always bought from the lowest bidder.. The 258 was used in a few other vehicles too, not only AMC/Jeep...International Scout was another user of this engine...these were tough engines though cheaply designed and produced and built in at least two very different versions even though they would all bolt into the same vehicles. A couple cost cutting measures were non-replaceable valve guides....if the guides were worn beyond spec you reamed them and fitted valves with the next oversize stems.....another concerned the valve lifters.....you have to remove the cyl head to change lifters.....unlike the Ford and GM sixes which had access panels on the passenger side of the engine to get to the lifters.

 

[edju1958]

Absolutely right about International! I was thinking about them as I wrote the above post.It wasn't uncommon for International to put a 10 yr.old part in a new vehicle.For example:they'd put a rear end from a '65 into a '75 truck.This created problems when you'd go to repair something.If you went to NAPA & said you had a '75 Scout,God help you,because it could have parts in it from any yr.of the previous decade (or older).

 

[Deleted member 150358]

Buddy stopped with this CE670 W today. I would like to buy it if it comes up. Which it sounds like it might. Don't see these W models come up around here too often. The filter setup isn't for me. Definitely would consider converting back to a standard filter and cover.

 

[edju1958]

I found out why my 361 was leaking gas after I put a new tank gasket on.At the bottom of the front plate are two screws that help to hold the plate on & seal the tank.Apparently somehow at the bottom of those screw holes was a bunch of crap that prevented the screws from tightening all the way & sealing the tank properly.I had to run a tap down those holes to clean them out.I also noticed that some of the old gasket was still on the front plate.More scraping & a ride on the wire wheel took care of that.I put it back together again & filled it up with gas & oil.Now I just need to put the bar & chain back on & I'm ready for tomorrow.

 

[fossil]

I found out why my 361 was leaking gas after I put a new tank gasket on.At the bottom of the front plate are two screws that help to hold the plate on & seal the tank.Apparently somehow at the bottom of those screw holes was a bunch of crap that prevented the screws from tightening all the way & sealing the tank properly.I had to run a tap down those holes to clean them out.I also noticed that some of the old gasket was still on the front plate.More scraping & a ride on the wire wheel took care of that.I put it back together again & filled it up with gas & oil.Now I just need to put the bar & chain back on & I'm ready for tomorrow.

Good going. I like some Dollar store, not too aggressive scotchbrite stuff to clean the gasket surfaces. It doesn't damage the surfaces at all and makes short work of the bits of gasket material. A good wash needs to follow to get all the left over scrub pad crap.
Some oil on the gasket surface makes it go faster.

 

[beavis331]

AMC/Jeep always seemed to never get it quite right on the electronic ign. systems.....always changing to another brand almost yearly. I have an 86 CJ7 with the 258 six. Oh my what a convoluted setup that was.....the electronic ign. actually controlled the carb.....about 20 wires on the carb. from the "brain". It was always having issues. It was the closest attempt at fuel injection while still using an actual two barrel carb. I built a new engine for it last year and used a non-electric carb from an earlier engine and replaced the original electronic dist with an L6 GM HEI ign. dist. This vastly simplified the system as the carb now has only one wire to run the automatic choke and the ign system only uses one wire to run that as well!!! Runs real good this way!!!

Been there and done that whith the 258 and 232 engines. Lol!

 

[beavis331]

AMC/Jeep always seemed to never get it quite right on the electronic ign. systems.....always changing to another brand almost yearly. I have an 86 CJ7 with the 258 six. Oh my what a convoluted setup that was.....the electronic ign. actually controlled the carb.....about 20 wires on the carb. from the "brain". It was always having issues. It was the closest attempt at fuel injection while still using an actual two barrel carb. I built a new engine for it last year and used a non-electric carb from an earlier engine and replaced the original electronic dist with an L6 GM HEI ign. dist. This vastly simplified the system as the carb now has only one wire to run the automatic choke and the ign system only uses one wire to run that as well!!! Runs real good this way!!!

Had an 87 Wrangler with a 258. Fought that original carb. I even put a 4.0 head an that engine. Also used the 4.0 factory header. We had postal dj5's at work that we switched over to the Chevy distributors. Lots of memories, Lol!