Jonsered Chainsaws

[ErnieG]

The JB Weld/epoxy weeds are thick, so many manufacturers, so many choices.
Is there any benefit to using something like this:
J-B Weld 37901 ExtremeHeat High Temperature Resistant Metallic Paste

Or this

Permatex 84109 PermaPoxy 4 Minute Multi-Metal Epoxy

Or can I just use this stuff by I already have at home.

or is it just marketing hype and the basic JB Weld at my Ace Hardware will do?

I've used this one with good results...

Ernie

 

[numnutz6383]

I've used this one with good results...
View attachment 1088606
Ernie

Thanks! I saw that one as well, wasn't sure how the collective feels about the putty vs two-part. I've used the wood and marine putty with good results myself.

 

[numnutz6383]

I've used this one with good results...
View attachment 1088606
Ernie

I reached out to JB Weld to seek their opinion and this is the answer I got:

Since it’s a 2 stroke mix look to our original 8265 if the hole is too large for a liquid look to the 8267 Steel Stick. The surface MUST be oil free

 

[ErnieG]

I reached out to JB Weld to seek their opinion and this is the answer I got:

I'd go with the steel stik 8267 if it were me ....

Ernie

 

[Cantdog]

Thanks! I saw that one as well, wasn't sure how the collective feels about the putty vs two-part. I've used the wood and marine putty with good results myself.

Personally I would use the regular two part stuff......it will flow well into the corners and fill gaps etc.

 

[Real1shepherd]

What I can tell you is when I worked at that gold mill high in the mountains of CO....we had equipment that was sometimes 100yrs old. We often didn't have the luxury to get any parts....they had to be made/fabricated. In slurry pump casings we used Devcon Liquid Steel to repair small surfaces. That stuff was the stoutest epoxy I ever saw and we could have used anything. What that Devcon was exposed to was criminal.

But it was some commercial version, not what you see at the hardware store. That T-88 you have looks interesting, but whatever you use, it has to be rated for exposure to gasoline/oil. A lot of epoxies will break down in time exposed to that.

There's some epoxy I found Downunder that looked pretty fantastic, but so was the price to get it here. The problem with 'sticks' is the oils from your fingers as you mix it. If you're gonna use a stick, at least wear some auto-quality disposable gloves (non-latex/powder).

Heat cycle that area at least three times to get it clean. I used the putty once on a steering wheel repair for an old military vehicle. Followed the instructions exactly....total failure. I watched a vid recently on repairing old steering wheels.....it's a time wh*re.

Kevin

 

[numnutz6383]

What I can tell you is when I worked at that gold mill high in the mountains of CO....we had equipment that was sometimes 100yrs old. We often didn't have the luxury to get any parts....they had to be made/fabricated. In slurry pump casings we used Devcon Liquid Steel to repair small surfaces. That stuff was the stoutest epoxy I ever saw and we could have used anything. What that Devcon was exposed to was criminal.

But it was some commercial version, not what you see at the hardware store. That T-88 you have looks interesting, but whatever you use, it has to be rated for exposure to gasoline/oil. A lot of epoxies will break down in time exposed to that.

There's some epoxy I found Downunder that looked pretty fantastic, but so was the price to get it here. The problem with 'sticks' is the oils from your fingers as you mix it. If you're gonna use a stick, at least wear some auto-quality disposable gloves (non-latex/powder).

Heat cycle that area at least three times to get it clean. I used the putty once on a steering wheel repair for an old military vehicle. Followed the instructions exactly....total failure. I watched a vid recently on repairing old steering wheels.....it's a time wh*re.

Kevin

I emailed the SystemThree (T-88 manufacturer) and they replied with this:

You would want to look at a filled epoxy adhesive like our GelMagic Structural Adhesive. It has a consistency like Vaseline and could be squeeqeed into the crack. One thing that concerns me about the repair is the crankcase might exceed the Maximum Service Temperature for GelMagic of 170F. At that temperature, the epoxy begins to weaken and will more easily be damaged. If you think the temperature will exceed that then you may want to search for a higher maximum service temperature material for the repair.

I'm guessing you were referring to one of these Devcon products. Quite expensive as you mentioned.

ttps://www.mcmaster.com/products/devcon-metal-repair-epoxies/

 

[numnutz6383]

Testing the compression on my 451 made me think about my compression tester (Actron CP7828A). Mine has the dreaded Schrader valve that's a potential source of false readings, but only on the 14mm hose, not the 12/10mm adapters, which from what I understand is another possible cause of false readings. Well I feel like a 10mm adapter is something I will need to test the Stihl MS462 I'm working on, and any other future projects with 10mm plugs.

I could get a TinyTach DTT-2311 (appears to be an Echo 91147 rebrand) that comes with a 14mm to 10mm adapter with a Schrader valve, but it doesn't come with a 12mm.

Are 12 mm plugs common in small engines?
Do I really need to keep looking for a tester with a 12mm adapter featuring a Schrader valve?
What do you guys use personally?

 

[ErnieG]

Well the saw arrived the other day and first thing I did was pull the muffler and dang it ...
It has some transfer ...looking through the spark plug hole it's not very bad on the cylinder so I'm positive I could clean it up and at the least new rings .
This has the thin rings in it so I'll have to hunt a pair down .
Otherwise the saws in very good shape ..doesn't seem like it was used very much at all .
I'm thinking it sat for while and the previous owner did a (tune-up) because it has a new plug fuel line and filter but was probably never check for an air leak which I'm thinking caused the scoring .
Keep posted when I tear into this one .
Ernie

 

[Cantdog]

Well the saw arrived the other day and first thing I did was pull the muffler and dang it ...View attachment 1089041
It has some transfer ...looking through the spark plug hole it's not very bad on the cylinder so I'm positive I could clean it up and at the least new rings .
This has the thin rings in it so I'll have to hunt a pair down .
Otherwise the saws in very good shape ..doesn't seem like it was used very much at all .
I'm thinking it sat for while and the previous owner did a (tune-up) because it has a new plug fuel line and filter but was probably never check for an air leak which I'm thinking caused the scoring .
Keep posted when I tear into this one .
Ernie

Awww that sucks........I really doubt you'll ever find a set NOS of thin rings for the 630......they only were used a couple years and failed all the tyme. Mostly it was not the fault of the rings......more likely the oil available at the tyme and most folks believing "More Oil was Better" in the mix.......which caused carbornizing to the extent that the thin rings could not over come and stuck in the lands and so failed.....

My 630 WC must have been a later saw as it came through with a single ring piston.....

 

[ErnieG]

Awww that sucks........I really doubt you'll ever find a set NOS of thin rings for the 630......they only were used a couple years and failed all the tyme. Mostly it was not the fault of the rings......more likely the oil available at the tyme and most folks believing "More Oil was Better" in the mix.......which caused carborizing to the extent that the thin rings could not over come and stuck in the lands and so failed.....

My 630 WC must have been a later saw as it came through with a single ring piston.....

I did find some rings ...I believe they shared the same rings as the Husqvarna 162se though they aren't cheap .

Ernie

 

[Real1shepherd]

Well the saw arrived the other day and first thing I did was pull the muffler and dang it ...View attachment 1089041
It has some transfer ...looking through the spark plug hole it's not very bad on the cylinder so I'm positive I could clean it up and at the least new rings .
This has the thin rings in it so I'll have to hunt a pair down .
Otherwise the saws in very good shape ..doesn't seem like it was used very much at all .
I'm thinking it sat for while and the previous owner did a (tune-up) because it has a new plug fuel line and filter but was probably never check for an air leak which I'm thinking caused the scoring .
Keep posted when I tear into this one .
Ernie

If you can find rings.....I'd get in there and start polishing. "Wigglesworth" method is my favorite and least invasive.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

I emailed the SystemThree (T-88 manufacturer) and they replied with this:

I'm guessing you were referring to one of these Devcon products. Quite expensive as you mentioned.

ttps://www.mcmaster.com/products/devcon-metal-repair-epoxies/

We were probably using that "Chemical-Resistant Surface Fillers for Metal" stuff. 350F range should be fine, although it would be nice to have more. Anything less than that can't take the repeated heat stress. We weren't dealing with significant heat at all at the mill in most equipment we used epoxy. Yeah, crazy money post-COVID, like everything else. We didn't have to worry about that....just that it worked.

170F epoxy is not made to withstand heat stress.....I'd rule that one out.

Kevin

 

[ErnieG]

If you can find rings.....I'd get in there and start polishing. "Wigglesworth" method is my favorite and least invasive.

Kevin

The last few I did I just used good ol fashioned elbow grease.
Takes some time but it's not to bad .

Ernie

 

[Real1shepherd]

Awww that sucks........I really doubt you'll ever find a set NOS of thin rings for the 630......they only were used a couple years and failed all the tyme. Mostly it was not the fault of the rings......more likely the oil available at the tyme and most folks believing "More Oil was Better" in the mix.......which caused carbornizing to the extent that the thin rings could not over come and stuck in the lands and so failed.....

My 630 WC must have been a later saw as it came through with a single ring piston.....

We talked about this before. I absolutely agree that thin ring failure was probably due to the traditional oil mixes used. No way to go back in time and issue new saws with them, and see if they could withstand the everyday workload with a good syn oil mix, unfortunately.

I was offered the thin ring 2100's, but in logger circles, thin ring 2100's were considered to be hot-rod unreliable saws. No reasonable logger wanted to gamble on 'unreliable' whether it was due to oil mix or whatever. If you had four or five fallin' saws, wanted to experiment, and lived close to Walker Saw Shop....you could have experimented. I gotta think there's people that knew chit even back then.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

The last few I did I just used good ol fashioned elbow grease.
Takes some time but it's not to bad .

Ernie

The "Wigglesworth" method is safe, why I use it....you'll never go too far with it unless you're absolutely daft. Takes a long time because you remove so little with it for the time involved. Not that it's super critical in chainsaws, but it will also give you a faint cross-hatch pattern.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

Testing the compression on my 451 made me think about my compression tester (Actron CP7828A). Mine has the dreaded Schrader valve that's a potential source of false readings, but only on the 14mm hose, not the 12/10mm adapters, which from what I understand is another possible cause of false readings. Well I feel like a 10mm adapter is something I will need to test the Stihl MS462 I'm working on, and any other future projects with 10mm plugs.

I could get a TinyTach DTT-2311 (appears to be an Echo 91147 rebrand) that comes with a 14mm to 10mm adapter with a Schrader valve, but it doesn't come with a 12mm.

Are 12 mm plugs common in small engines?
Do I really need to keep looking for a tester with a 12mm adapter featuring a Schrader valve?
What do you guys use personally?

I don't have anything with plugs that small.....but it's not at all unreasonable to believe with all the adapting, you're getting unreliable readings. Especially if you had a saw that started easily every time, snorted well, but gave unusually low compression readings.

Kevin

 

[ErnieG]

The "Wigglesworth" method is safe, why I use it....you'll never go too far with it unless you're absolutely daft. Takes a long time because you remove so little with it for the time involved. Not that it's super critical in chainsaws, but it will also give you a faint cross-hatch pattern.

Kevin

Can you elaborate on the Wigglesworth method ?

Thanks
Ernie

 

[Real1shepherd]

Can you elaborate on the Wigglesworth method ?

Thanks
Ernie

Randy(Mastermind)....no I'm not a fanboy of anybody, Randy included....in one of his YouTube vids explains and shows it. "Wigglesworth" I think is a friend or inventor of this method.

Basically, you find a rubber mandrel and extension for a drill. The mandrel you cut down to just under the size of your bore. You get some industrial pads of BROWN ScotchBrite. You simply center the mandrel into the patch, start your drill and force the patch down the cylinder. Then, pattern up & down just like using a cylinder hone brush.

I've found tons of other uses for the brown pads.....but they do shed abrasive particles, so be aware of that.

Kevin

 

[ErnieG]

Randy(Mastermind)....no I'm not a fanboy of anybody, Randy included....in one of his YouTube vids explains and shows it. "Wigglesworth" I think is a friend or inventor of this method.

Basically, you find a rubber mandrel and extension for a drill. The mandrel you cut down to just under the size of your bore. You get some industrial pads of BROWN ScotchBrite. You simply center the mandrel into the patch, start your drill and force the patch down the cylinder. Then, pattern up & down just like using a cylinder hone brush.

I've found tons of other uses for the brown pads.....but they do shed abrasive particles, so be aware of that.

Kevin

Ok I've seen that video ..I'll have to give it a try on the 670 when I get to it but for now I have another dilemma.
My 2171 Cutters Edge has the dreaded mag rot in the crank case . I've torn it apart and took a Dremel to the spots with just a wire wheel ..I didn't go crazy grinding anything out.
It doesn't look to bad ...mostly just lite surface rot .
What's your opinion?
I can have the case powder coated but I'll loose the two CE stickers on it or could I just do a paint job myself on the inside where the rot is ?
Thanks
Ernie