Learn ME!

[glov3r]

It seems that this time of year I really have trouble with large limbs wanting to pull the saw down (out of my hands!) when I finish my backcut! I notice this more with maple, should I bore out the heartwood? I dont feel I have as much control with a bore cut! Should I backcut even w/ the notch? above? or maybe a european type open face? (<)? HOW DO YOU PREVENT THIS???

 

[Rickytree]

It seems that this time of year I really have trouble with large limbs wanting to pull the saw down (out of my hands!) when I finish my backcut! I notice this more with maple, should I bore out the heartwood? I dont feel I have as much control with a bore cut! Should I backcut even w/ the notch? above? or maybe a european type open face? (<)? HOW DO YOU PREVENT THIS???

Are you roping or dropping? Roping try to slide out the saw before it comes over. or don't even use a notch, let ur rip!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It sounds like you are possibly doing a jump cut and making the top cut tip-side of your bottom cut. This can create a curf in the limb called a "saw trap". The best way to avoid this is to make the top cut trunk side of the bottom cut.

 

[Bermie]

It sounds like you are possibly doing a jump cut and making the top cut tip-side of your bottom cut. This can create a curf in the limb called a "saw trap". The best way to avoid this is to make the top cut trunk side of the bottom cut.

What he said!
For bigger limbs make that final top cut closer to the trunk...
I know what you mean, had a 290 pulled out of my hands up a tree making the top cut on the wrong side!!!

 

[treemandan]

It sounds like you are possibly doing a jump cut and making the top cut tip-side of your bottom cut. This can create a curf in the limb called a "saw trap". The best way to avoid this is to make the top cut trunk side of the bottom cut.

That is the jump cut, when the top cut is closer to the trunk, right? I know things get a little fuzzy for me but I am pretty sure those limbs go jumping when I do that.
I think what you are describing is the famous "3 point saw trap and horrendous regret cut" where the top cut is tip side of the bottom.
I think so Jps. I do love the jump cut though. Use it alot for the low large ones. I like to rabbet the undercut ( maybe 2 bars wide), you can go deeper with out pinching( if you are good and fast) as the rabbet closes get the saw out and you know you have some energy about to be unleashed when you rev high for the top cut, oh they jump... and wiggle.

 

[treemandan]

What he said!
For bigger limbs make that final top cut closer to the trunk...
I know what you mean, had a 290 pulled out of my hands up a tree making the top cut on the wrong side!!!

man, I hope they stop teaching people that cut.I think its from the old days when they used only hand saws or something. Its good for chunking down peices of a trunk though but usually I have both hands on the log when I pop them off. Even if I don't need both hands to handle the log I take the saw out of the cut all the time anyway. In this case its refered as the snap cut though and there is no side load on the wood you are cutting.

Basically there are 3 choices for cutting a weighted limb
1. cut right through from the top or side
2. notch it somehow
3. Jump it

If there is another cut anyone thinks they should add I will say now NO! There is not. I like this work, its simple.

 

[treemandan]

It seems that this time of year I really have trouble with large limbs wanting to pull the saw down (out of my hands!) when I finish my backcut! I notice this more with maple, should I bore out the heartwood? I dont feel I have as much control with a bore cut! Should I backcut even w/ the notch? above? or maybe a european type open face? (<)? HOW DO YOU PREVENT THIS???

No you don't have the same ammount of control with a bore as you would with just a regular backcut. I tend to keep the backcut even with the notch when in the tree, not as much on the ground though.

 

[murphy4trees]

ANSI, Shigo etc..

It is the standard three cut target pruning instruction diagram that is to blame for the death of many a good climbing saw... This shows a kerf undercut then the top cut out further from the trunk than the undercut. (then of course the final target cut)... You gotta remember that was originally designed for pruning cuts... You could argue that the top cut should always be behind the undercut and I wouldn't disagree, however keep in mind that pruning cuts on live wood should be kept under 2-3", except in rare cases where a larger limb needs to be removed for some specific purpose... The standard three cut diagram will not cause saw snatch if the limb is under 3"...

That said, it is rediculous that ANSI still includes that old diagream fro target pruning when it is widely known to cause saw snatch...

Here is a quote from a 3000 word letter I sent to ANSI in comment period for the last revision of the Z.133 pruning standard:

Figure 5.3.2.
with the caption:
A cut that removes a branch at its point of origin. (See Annex A – Pruning cut guideline).
Now annex A is on page 29 and reads:
A-1.1 The technique depicted in Figure 5.3.2 demonstrates one example of a 3-cut method that is common to hand saw usage. It is not intended to depict all acceptable 3-cut method techniques.

That short statement on page 29 should be included with the diagram on page 18. And it would be helpful to further mention that the depicted cut is for use on branches of small diameter on pruning cuts to help avoid bark ripping into the trunk. The depicted cut will tend to cause saw snatch when used on large limbs during removals.

I'll have to look for their response to the letter which eventually came and in which they responded to each comment or suggestion individually. I try not to be too hard on anyone in words, thoughts or actions... That said their idiotic response to many of my comments was enough to really set me off. The world should know that the ANSI board is comprised of a bunch of dinasours and they should relegate their pruning standard back to where it came from... THE STONE AGE OF ARBORICULTURE!!!

They really drag their heels when ot comes to change..

Hey... apologies for getting a bit off topic here... but that really got me going

 

[Rftreeman]

man, I hope they stop teaching people that cut.I think its from the old days when they used only hand saws or something. Its good for chunking down peices of a trunk though but usually I have both hands on the log when I pop them off. Even if I don't need both hands to handle the log I take the saw out of the cut all the time anyway. In this case its refered as the snap cut though and there is no side load on the wood you are cutting.

Basically there are 3 choices for cutting a weighted limb
1. cut right through from the top or side
2. notch it somehow
3. Jump it

If there is another cut anyone thinks they should add I will say now NO! There is not. I like this work, its simple.

:agree2:

 

[Raymond]

These guys are SO right. I dropped 3 saws before I figured out what I was doing wrong.

Your saw will lock in one piece or the other, when your cuts overlap. The tree or the log when it breaks away. After you figure this out it will totally make sense.

Few weeks ago I loaned a parttime climber my saw. He dropped it and blew it apart. Just before he did I yelled DON'T YOU DROP MY SAW! I seen he had his cuts backward.

Later I asked him "You know what you did wrong, right?" He said he knows what I'm talking about but thought he was making the last cut on the right side.

All I could do was shake my head and say "That is so important you need to be sure you're doing it right EVERYTIME.

Took me 2 hours and 40 minutes to get it fixed and back on the front lines.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

My camera is down, maybe someone can take a picture of a saw-trap and post it?

 

[Rftreeman]

I've always just put the cuts in line with each other, put the top cut directly over the bottom and this gives the jump that Dan & John refereed to, at least I think that's what he's talking about.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've always just put the cuts in line with each other, put the top cut directly over the bottom and this gives the jump that Dan & John refereed to, at least I think that's what he's talking about.

You get a better jump if you cut a bit back from the undercut.