Line clearance question.

[pdqdl]

I am meeting a customer next week to bid on some tree trimming. Sadly, I don't think I have ever been asked to do this before, so I thought I might go there prepared with a little more wisdom than I have right now.

Customer is moving an electric service line. The power company says that they have to clear the trees. Customer says that the line must go through the middle of one of his trees, and that he does not want to butcher the trees.

What are the usual specifications for how much clearance a service line has?

Is it acceptable to leave branches hanging over the line, or must we butcher the tree?

Some advice would be helpful. I am meeting the customer on monday, along with the electrical contractor, so I will probably figure something out.

 

[trailduster2]

clearance

Up here in Colorado I work for a line clearing company. Our standards are, there must be no less than 5 feet off center. Meaning a total of 10 feet clearance. 5 on eather side of the line. Ground to sky. Nothing under the line and nothing above the line. Storms can play havic on the lines and when thay get to swinging in the wind along with the trees things can get zapped and then you have some real issues. This to dependes on the line voltage that is going up. Most of the lines that run a house is below .725 kv - and 15 kv. the triplex that runes to the house from the meter pole is around a 220v. this line require a total clearance of 18 inches. Hope this helps just remember that this could vary from state to state.

 

[pdqdl]

Perhaps I wasn't clear: I believe the service drop is only intended to be a 240v line. Thanks for the input on that issue.

But now that you have suggested it, I guess it might be a primary wire being extended, so I will get mentally prepared for that, too.

 

[ropensaddle]

Perhaps I wasn't clear: I believe the service drop is only intended to be a 240v line.

But now that you have suggested it, I guess it might be a primary wire being extended, so I will get mentally prepared for that, too.

If it is a service wire triplex merely a hole at proper height will suffice. You will need it to not rub as a general rule of thumb 3 foot clearance should work for that. If it turns out to be primary it will require here 10 from dripline and overhang removed or reduced to skyline. It however is different one power company to the next.

 

[brookpederson]

I've seen quite a few secondary lines running right through the tree, but i think they were small tree's that had grown up into the lines. I've never heard of anyone wanting to run a line through a mature tree before. Sounds like a bad Deal.

 

[beowulf343]

If it is a service wire triplex merely a hole at proper height will suffice. You will need it to not rub as a general rule of thumb 3 foot clearance should work for that. If it turns out to be primary it will require here 10 from dripline and overhang removed or reduced to skyline. It however is different one power company to the next.

It's generally the same here for both the service and primary. I mean the same as what you said, not the same clearance for both.

 

[TreeClimber57]

We are supposed to be 10ft on each side of primary and below it, and nothing above. Now when saying below, that is below live primary wire, not neutral. Neutral if I remember correctly is 5 ft below and 10ft on either side.

It is actually greater distance for 44kv (and nothing below 44kv), anything above 44kv has the trees removed completely on both sides (distance depending on a few factors) creating a clear right of way.

Secondary - we never did much trimming on them and I don't recall reading anything on that, but suspect it does exist.

 

[ropensaddle]

We are supposed to be 10ft on each side of primary and below it, and nothing above. Now when saying below, that is below live primary wire, not neutral. Neutral if I remember correctly is 5 ft below and 10ft on either side.

It is actually greater distance for 44kv (and nothing below 44kv), anything above 44kv has the trees removed completely on both sides (distance depending on a few factors) creating a clear right of way.

Secondary - we never did much trimming on them and I don't recall reading anything on that, but suspect it does exist.

Secondary triplex on new right of ways will be clear of growth so serviceman can place new wire and sag in to proper spec. I have cut 100000 miles of new right of way and likely trimmed more than a million. All proper clearance shall include minimal secondary clearance but so many contractors fail to do this and it is shoty work. It reminds me of brush hogging the lines and leaving the saplings near guys and overhead stub also proper clearance standard to clear. Of course I have cleared them over twenty years.

 

[pdqdl]

I do not think this is right-of-way clearance for a service line installation, I think it is only a line drop from pole to building. The customer only referred to one tree needing trimmed, so I think he is just moving the service line.

He told me that the line would go right over (or through) the tree, and that he did not want to top the tree.

In Kansas City, the utility company is responsible for all the wiring up to the meter box, so I doubt if the electrical contractor will be pulling the line through any recently created hole in the tree, and I suspect that KCPL will not be terribly willing to do it either.

Comments?

 

[lxt]

Due to the fact each utility has different specifications pertaining to clearance you should: 1- contact them & ask for specifications as it pertains to this customer (is it considered capital work?) 2- what Kv are we making way for? 3- are the poles there or marked?......line of sight from pole to pole or if this is just a standard house drop....ala; triplex/coated secondary ask for their clearance specs!!


good luck!!



LXT..................

 

[TreeClimber57]

Secondary triplex on new right of ways will be clear of growth so serviceman can place new wire and sag in to proper spec. I have cut 100000 miles of new right of way and likely trimmed more than a million. All proper clearance shall include minimal secondary clearance but so many contractors fail to do this and it is shoty work. It reminds me of brush hogging the lines and leaving the saplings near guys and overhead stub also proper clearance standard to clear. Of course I have cleared them over twenty years.

I worked for the Government Owned Utility (forestry) but we only did the right of ways and primary related work. Never touched anything going to customer property. In fact the vast majority of our work never had any transformers on the lines/poles to feed customers. So don't have a lot of personal experience in the secondary side. Have done some secondary stuff since I have been on my own, but not a whole lot.

 

[ropensaddle]

I worked for the Government Owned Utility (forestry) but we only did the right of ways and primary related work. Never touched anything going to customer property. In fact the vast majority of our work never had any transformers on the lines/poles to feed customers. So don't have a lot of personal experience in the secondary side. Have done some secondary stuff since I have been on my own, but not a whole lot.

I was not trying to bust your chops bro just pointing out proper clearance. I have worked 500kv down and really wished I had not, it is now done by Mexico.

 

[TreeClimber57]

I was not trying to bust your chops bro just pointing out proper clearance. I have worked 500kv down and really wished I had not, it is now done by Mexico.

Hey no worries rope !!

We all here to learn from each other.. and throw in a tip or two if we have something to offer (or sometimes even if we don't)

 

[ropensaddle]

Due to the fact each utility has different specifications pertaining to clearance you should: 1- contact them & ask for specifications as it pertains to this customer (is it considered capital work?) 2- what Kv are we making way for? 3- are the poles there or marked?......line of sight from pole to pole or if this is just a standard house drop....ala; triplex/coated secondary ask for their clearance specs!!


good luck!!



LXT..................

Good advice call them ask for their construction supervisor and you will likely have to leave message but he should call you with the info.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've seen quite a few secondary lines running right through the tree, but i think they were small tree's that had grown up into the lines. I've never heard of anyone wanting to run a line through a mature tree before. Sounds like a bad Deal.

I've done it a few times, a few feet of clearance is all that is needed. Quite often with new construction on wooded lots you will need to do some clearance work for the permanent drop. One of my clients has a contract with WEPCO to do jobs too small to send an Orange truck out on, I work for a few builders too.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I worked for the Government Owned Utility (forestry) but we only did the right of ways and primary related work. Never touched anything going to customer property. In fact the vast majority of our work never had any transformers on the lines/poles to feed customers. So don't have a lot of personal experience in the secondary side. Have done some secondary stuff since I have been on my own, but not a whole lot.

So why chime in in if you don't know. Rope is right on this. A service drop just shouldn't rub.
Jeff

 

[TreeClimber57]

So why chime in in if you don't know. Rope is right on this. A service drop just shouldn't rub.
Jeff

Not rubbing is not a spec. I will dig out my old books and take a look, as is likely in there. You see as a Govt owned utility, we rarely did triplex clearing as it was the customers responsibility. (we would do it if customer paid for it, but our rates were higher than any tree service company ) The ones I have done since being on my own, have done a couple of feet around triplex.. but that does not mean it is according to spec.

The initial questions, as I recall, does not specify what it is. It says "electric service line". Now if in rural area, we usually run primary up to house and place transformer on last pole, and triplex from there. Utility is only responsible for it if more than one customer is fed from service, so if only one then customer responsible. However, the primary portion still follows the same rules as any other on grid.

If you consider "electrical service line" to be only the triplex, then ok for discussion to focus on only that, that however has not been stated anywhere as I recall. If it is NOT just the triplex, then discussion needs to go furhter, and a lot of guys have added additional info on the hv side as well.

I can guarantee you would never pass around here with a trim of "never rubbing". I will pull spec this afternoon as I have them in book in office (now a few years old but doubt that has changed). Note, that may well change from one utility or province/state to another (especially the low voltage -- less than .75kv)

 

[ropensaddle]

Not rubbing is not a spec. I will dig out my old books and take a look, as is likely in there. You see as a Govt owned utility, we rarely did triplex clearing as it was the customers responsibility. (we would do it if customer paid for it, but our rates were higher than any tree service company ) The ones I have done since being on my own, have done a couple of feet around triplex.. but that does not mean it is according to spec.

The initial questions, as I recall, does not specify what it is. It says "electric service line". Now if in rural area, we usually run primary up to house and place transformer on last pole, and triplex from there. Utility is only responsible for it if more than one customer is fed from service, so if only one then customer responsible. However, the primary portion still follows the same rules as any other on grid.

If you consider "electrical service line" to be only the triplex, then ok for discussion to focus on only that, that however has not been stated anywhere as I recall. If it is NOT just the triplex, then discussion needs to go furhter, and a lot of guys have added additional info on the hv side as well.

I can guarantee you would never pass around here with a trim of "never rubbing". I will pull spec this afternoon as I have them in book in office (now a few years old but doubt that has changed). Note, that may well change from one utility or province/state to another (especially the low voltage -- less than .75kv)

I never said it was spec just a rule of thumb, we got a three foot hole. The power company did not want the insulation getting rubbed off but proper line clearance will include minimal secondary clearance each trim cycle. I have seen shoddy work by many top clearance crews leaving limbs rubbing and weighted heavy on service drops. Also the fat guy bush hogging miles of distribution and never getting off the tractor to clear guy wires and overhead stub poles causes problems and is shoddy too. I am not saying you did this mind you just saying how ropey looked at these things.

 

[TreeClimber57]

I never said it was spec just a rule of thumb, we got a three foot hole. The power company did not want the insulation getting rubbed off but proper line clearance will include minimal secondary clearance each trim cycle. I have seen shoddy work by many top clearance crews leaving limbs rubbing and weighted heavy on service drops. Also the fat guy bush hogging miles of distribution and never getting off the tractor to clear guy wires and overhead stub poles causes problems and is shoddy too. I am not saying you did this mind you just saying how ropey looked at these things.

Hey when we cleared working for utility, we cleared :hmm3grin2orange:

We had (on larger jobs) over a million dollars of equipment at our disposal, and we were paid by the hour.. no worries on how long it took. In winter months spent more hours in Nodwell with heater on than doing work some days..! Some of that has changed in last 20 years mind you, and some crews no doubt are focused on production now.

I looked and our spec says one meter around lv service drops. Not sure if that is up to date or not though. The way it is written it could actually be interpreted as a distance of greater than one meter as it gets into tree movement in wind not encroaching beyond 10% within the clear zone (this however is an overall statement for all lines). They may have taken that part out, as it was always difficult to interpret and always was a point of discussion.. and we usually ignored for the most part.

 

[jefflovstrom]

My service drop funs through my mulberry tree.
Jeff